[XERO1]

Is there really a demand for a limited product like that, or would it be better to do, say, a multi-input DAC that matched the width and depth of the Asgard 3 at, say, $149-199? Then you could have 3-4 inputs and much more versatility.

Yes! YES!! YES!!!

Jason, this is exactly what we need!

So Jason, here's another one of my 'elevator product pitches' for ya!

Bifrost 2 Jr (or whatever you want to call it)

- same 9" x 6.75" chassis as Bifrost 2
- nothing modular (to keep costs down)
- no remote (to keep cost down)
- comes with Unison USB
- MicroSD slot for future firmware updates
- AD5547 16 bit chips (x2)
- single-ended RCA out only
- same or similar power built-in supply
- $399

Boom.

Earlier, I pitched the above idea for a Bifrost 2 "Jr" in the Schiit Happened forum, but I think it makes perfect sense to also make a DS version for around $200.

I would love to see one or both of these DACs eventually get made.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

But I made the comparisons using the dac and amplification from the sound card as well, instead of sound card dac + Asgard amp. I'm assuming the HD700 is simply efficient, enough to need no more than the Essence STX own amp/dac combo.

Same goes for amps. Unless an amp is colored a certain way, you shouldn't be "hearing" it either. The amps job is to make sure headphones are getting ample clean power to work at their most optimal state. The STX is actually no slouch in powering headphones. It's actually a really good soundcard.

Again, if you're buying amps and dacs to hear them, you're doing it wrong. Get something to let your headphones work their best, that is all.

In the case of the HD700, I don't personally know. Perhaps check impedance spikes and see if it struggles where the spoke is at its highest. Say if the spike is at 60hz where impedance is like 800ohm or something crazy, where the STX may not be providing enough juice and makes it sound weaker in that section vs an A3. Just as an example. I dunno HD700 impedance spikes.

Edit:S as the HD700 is 150ohm, the STX shouldn't have any problem with it. I doubt there are wild spikes out of the STX's capability to handle. The highest I've seen on Innerfidelity is about 100hz at like 380ohm in worst case scenario, well under what the STX amp can do.

 

[XERO1]

Is there really a demand for a limited product like that, or would it be better to do, say, a multi-input DAC that matched the width and depth of the Asgard 3 at, say, $149-199? Then you could have 3-4 inputs and much more versatility.

One last thought about a less expensive 9" x 6.75" DAC....

Maybe just offer a DS card option and a 16-bit card option for the Bifrost 2, if you can get the BOM low enough for that to make sense.

Otherwise, a lower cost, non-modular 9" x 6.75" DAC of any kind would still be a great product to have.

 

[KukoCL]

Same goes for amps. Unless an amp is colored a certain way, you shouldn't be "hearing" it either. The amps job is to make sure headphones are getting ample clean power to work at their most optimal state. The STX is actually no slouch in powering headphones. It's actually a really good soundcard.

Again, if you're buying amps and dacs to hear them, you're doing it wrong. Get something to let your headphones work their best, that is all.

In the case of the HD700, I don't personally know. Perhaps check impedance spikes and see if it struggles where the spoke is at its highest. Say if the spike is at 60hz where impedance is like 800ohm or something crazy, where the STX may not be providing enough juice and makes it sound weaker in that section vs an A3. Just as an example. I dunno HD700 impedance spikes.

Edit:S as the HD700 is 150ohm, the STX shouldn't have any problem with it. I doubt there are wild spikes out of the STX's capability to handle. The highest I've seen on Innerfidelity is about 100hz at like 380ohm in worst case scenario, well under what the STX amp can do.

Even if the headphones are well driven by the PC card, I expect to see some improvement moving from my $50usd sound blaster to a $300 usd dedicated DAC/AMP with my HD660S. If not, that would be disappointing, but I will still use it in my work's office because all I have there is my smartphone to plug my headphones :C

 

[HumdrumPenguin]

Even if the headphones are well driven by the PC card, I expect to see some improvement moving from my $50usd sound blaster to a $300 usd dedicated DAC/AMP with my HD660S. If not, that would be disappointing, but I will still use it in my work's office because all I have there is my smartphone to plug my headphones :C

As I mention, I could clearly hear improvements when trying the HD6XX back and forth on Asgard 3/4490 - PC card, but didn't hear any difference on the HD700. This amp might as well be my end game. I'm really please with it, and it is portable enough to not require a lot of space on my desk. My desk is huge, but my PC and connected stuff take quite some space mind you.

 

[HumdrumPenguin]

Same goes for amps. Unless an amp is colored a certain way, you shouldn't be "hearing" it either. The amps job is to make sure headphones are getting ample clean power to work at their most optimal state. The STX is actually no slouch in powering headphones. It's actually a really good soundcard.

Again, if you're buying amps and dacs to hear them, you're doing it wrong. Get something to let your headphones work their best, that is all.

In the case of the HD700, I don't personally know. Perhaps check impedance spikes and see if it struggles where the spoke is at its highest. Say if the spike is at 60hz where impedance is like 800ohm or something crazy, where the STX may not be providing enough juice and makes it sound weaker in that section vs an A3. Just as an example. I dunno HD700 impedance spikes.

Edit:S as the HD700 is 150ohm, the STX shouldn't have any problem with it. I doubt there are wild spikes out of the STX's capability to handle. The highest I've seen on Innerfidelity is about 100hz at like 380ohm in worst case scenario, well under what the STX amp can do.

What you are saying makes sense, but I still can hear an improvement from the STX to the Asgard on the HD6XX (fuller body). I'm not imagining things, otherwise I'd say the same for the HD700, the one which I claim to hear no difference. I think that beyond a good $150ish dac, there will really be not much of an improvement to sound, if any, unless colouring it, but the story may change a bit for amps. I'm not a believer in extravagant gear at all, and I'll probably not upgrade to anything beyond what I currently have because I don't see any sense to it. Makes a hell lot more sense to invest in other headphones then to change my sourcing imho.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

What you are saying makes sense, but I still can hear an improvement from the STX to the Asgard on the HD6XX (fuller body). I'm not imagining things, otherwise I'd say the same for the HD700, the one which I claim to hear no difference. I think that beyond a good $150ish dac, there will really be not much of an improvement to sound, if any, unless colouring it, but the story may change a bit for amps. I'm not a believer in extravagant gear at all, and I'll probably not upgrade to anything beyond what I currently have because I don't see any sense to it. Makes a hell lot more sense to invest in other headphones then to change my sourcing imho.

Oh, I'm not saying all good amps and dacs sound the same. I'm saying, that these things make the most subtle of changes, and you shouldn't be expecting big changes with most gear. Diminishing returns is a HUGE factor when it comes amps/dacs. Say, I have a Magni 3. I still want an Asgard 3 even thought I don't expect a huge difference. I mainly want the Asgard 3 for its potential to drive even more stuff better than the Magni. That and I like the bigger chassis.

 

[squishware]

I have been auditioning the Asgard 3 with the Multibit DAC for about 2 weeks now. I previously had a Uber Bifrost with Gen 2 USB that I used with my JBL SB100 Soundbar for PC sound and switched by SYS to my La Figaro 332 Classic for a headphone amp with my modded Beyerdynamic DT880 600 OHMs. The multibit is VERY revealing. I listen to a lot of classic rock and there are some terrible mixes and Asgard thinks its funny to show them to you. I enjoy hearing parts of music that I have not noticed before whether they are pleasing or not. The Beyers were a little too sharp for me (kind of hurts at high volume levels) but I picked up a pair of ZMF classics and so far I think there is good synergy with this pairing. I am considering selling the Beyers AND the La Figaro(even though the synergy between those two is magical). I already sold the Bifrost and SYS. I gave the soundbar to my son and bought a pair of 305P MkII studio monitors and the LSR 310S matched sub. I am using the pre outs from the Asgard 3 into a Rolls Promatch to boost the signal to Pro Level (+4dc) and then to the sub and pair of monitors. In nearfield it sounds AMAZING. I would definitely spring for the Multibit if I had to do it over. It had been about 5 years with my last version of my system it will be 5 more at least with this incarnation.

 

[ev666il]

My current audio chain is Modi 2 -> Magni 2 Uber -> Focal Elegia.

I really like the overall presentation: punchy, tight, and with a neutral timbre. However, I do find the mids and treble a little too coarse at times. For I tend to listen at high volumes, if a track is poorly mastered and already exhibits harsh treble (which isn’t unheard of in metal music), my chain adds to it a little and makes it fatiguing.

My hope is that the Asgard 3 with Multibit module will ameliorate this aspect. Anything beyond that is gravy, as the all-in-one solution also saves me some precious desk real estate and gets me a black unit, which I have wanted since I first bought my Schiit stack.


As for sound card comparisons: I used to run a Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD into the Magni 2 Uber. When I compared it to the Modi 2, I found the latter punchier and more resolving, whereas the Sound Blaster felt muddy and more “polite.”

I ascribed the less resolving nature of the Sound Blaster to a poorer clocking section. My wife also preferred the sound from the Modi 2, but of course all of this is purely anecdotal—the Modi 2 and SB weren’t level matched (I lack the means and know-how for that) and the comparison wasn’t blind.

 

[bradbort]

Oh, I'm not saying all good amps and dacs sound the same. I'm saying, that these things make the most subtle of changes, and you shouldn't be expecting big changes with most gear. Diminishing returns is a HUGE factor when it comes amps/dacs. Say, I have a Magni 3. I still want an Asgard 3 even thought I don't expect a huge difference. I mainly want the Asgard 3 for its potential to drive even more stuff better than the Magni. That and I like the bigger chassis.

My experience with DACs in a traditional stereo system, and headphone amps is more mixed. For DACs I hear the most difference, if I hear a difference, from speakers. For “good” DACs, I heard greater imaging and placement. For some DACs, I also hear greater bass extension, although that seems odd to me, since I don’t expect DACs to act like equalizers. I heard the greatest differences of this type when I switched to MB DACS, or traditional resister ladder R2R DACs....although I have heard Sigma Delta DACs that sound quite nice in my system...a Meridian director (no longer sold in the US) and the built in DAC in an Oppo 205. Mostly, however, I find most traditional DACS only give very subtle differences, if any, even if they cost up to $1500. The original Rega DAC, for example, made no changes that I could discern.

In terms of headphone amps, I think often its dependent on the headphones you use. I will say, however, that even with my fairly easy to driver focal clear headphones, the Asgard 3 is much more enjoyable than the Magni 3 or the built in headphone amp in my rogue sphinx 2. I’m hearing way more detail, and getting far less listening fatigue during lengthy sessions. I’m really liking the amp, far more than I liked the original Asgard and Asgard 2, both of which I sold for one reason or another. I don’t think I’ll be selling the 3. I agree, however, that I can’t see spending much more than what I spent on the (no cards) Asgard 3 on a headphone amp. I’ll hear more differences by buying different headphones, but I’m so happy with the Clears I may be at the end of the road there as well.

 

[squishware]

I think you can hear every change in the signal path. Headphone, DAC, Amp and maybe even cables. When I got the Bifrost I had a Yamaha CD player with Burr Brown DAC and I spent some time ABing them and the difference was not subtle. Both my headphones use the same mini XLR cables to attach at the cups so there may be some cable testing in the future. I am unsure if the Asgard is settling down or I am getting ear callouses but last night I put on Motley Crue the first one (Livewire) which is very mid centric. The ZMFs really sucked the life out of it so I switched to the Beyers and it sounded correct and not too sharp. I need to relisten to the tracks that I could not make it through previously, but I think two very differently tuned cans is akin to using EQ. I may keep both as I try to keep as many boxes out of the chain as possible (Loki resistance).

 

[Hofy]

My Asgard 3 arrived yesterday. Finally got it set up this morning. Opened it up and installed the line card. Easy but tight fit, so no problems for me. Of course, I can't leave anything alone!
I will post a better pic tonight. Too much lens distortion on this one.

 

[ev666il]

What’s with the oddly shaped volume knob?

 

[Hofy]

What’s with the oddly shaped volume knob?

Just a larger version of what I have used on my Magni. I find it easier to turn and it allows me to see where the volume is set at much easier.

(my Magni knob)

 

[Asahi Templar]

Are there any issues with the chassis grounding with the Asgard 3?

I am interested in getting one as I really like the way the black one looks and initial impressions are that its better than the Magni 3.

I am one of the (few?) people who found the Magni 3 compressed sounding. Does the Asgard 3 have that same issue or is it dynamic sounding?