Tridacnid
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I need pics of the "good" work. I'm really sorry to see someone's name get smeared around here, but if no one is willing to defend him with pics, then he may deserve it.
Scammer: TRL (Tube Research Labs) / Paul Weitzel
- Thread starter rincewind
- Start date
olblueyez
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No pics of the good stuff = BS. Put up or shut-up.
Brian Walsh
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Quote:
I don't see a lot of conflicts of interests on AA, but when I submitted proof of the sockpuppet's identity to two of the moderators they ignored it. The person in question generally hasn't stepped out of line in the past couple of years, maybe because a few people found him out. OTOH there's a lot of dirty stuff that happens on other sites and especially some of the e-zines.
| Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not a surprise. Some of them tend to be on the payroll or earning commissions, as well. One "defender" here accidentally admitted to earning commissions. [ rest deleted ] |
I don't see a lot of conflicts of interests on AA, but when I submitted proof of the sockpuppet's identity to two of the moderators they ignored it. The person in question generally hasn't stepped out of line in the past couple of years, maybe because a few people found him out. OTOH there's a lot of dirty stuff that happens on other sites and especially some of the e-zines.
DanTheMiataMan
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Quote:
QFMFT
| Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif No pics of the good stuff = BS. Put up or shut-up. |
QFMFT
smuh
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Quote:
I am not sure how many on head-fi own equipment that has been modified and how many would care to open their equipment to take pictures just because somebody needs a proof of whatsoever.
To be honest, I do not care at all what TRL does, as I doubt that they would be able to modify a mid-fi unit and make it sound like the-best-thing-on-earth-you-can-buy-for-money and charge a ****load of money for something they are not willing to talk about.
I am with the others that want to know what they get and what they are paying for, before placing the order.
The fact that TRL is not willing to share that info alone would keep me buying from them.
But even if I would be a happy TRL customer I would not open my unit and take pictures, it is up to TRL...
| Originally Posted by Tridacnid /img/forum/go_quote.gif I need pics of the "good" work. I'm really sorry to see someone's name get smeared around here, but if no one is willing to defend him with pics, then he may deserve it. |
I am not sure how many on head-fi own equipment that has been modified and how many would care to open their equipment to take pictures just because somebody needs a proof of whatsoever.
To be honest, I do not care at all what TRL does, as I doubt that they would be able to modify a mid-fi unit and make it sound like the-best-thing-on-earth-you-can-buy-for-money and charge a ****load of money for something they are not willing to talk about.
I am with the others that want to know what they get and what they are paying for, before placing the order.
The fact that TRL is not willing to share that info alone would keep me buying from them.
But even if I would be a happy TRL customer I would not open my unit and take pictures, it is up to TRL...
Sherwood
Headphoneus Supremus
I am willing to take Rincewind's word on this because I know Rincewind from his multiple posts here over a long period of time. Three defenders have emerged for TRL, none of them with more than 100 posts. I know audio fanatics, and they are frequent fliers on audio forums. Maybe the supporters are avid posters elsewhere, maybe not. But with nothing but new accounts and personal testimonials to back them up, they are suspect.
Rincewind, on the other hand, has a post history, pictures, and very little to gain from his story. The defenders have the resale value of their equipment to gain, for one. The vast majority of the "out the scammer" threads on this site do, indeed, turn out to out a scammer.
I have a piece of modified gear. My Moscode 300 Power amp was modified by Steve Sank at a cost of $1200. I will happily open it up and show exactly what was done to anyone who will listen. Steve also opens it up and shows what it looks like right on his site. He describes the mods in depth, and anyone who wants to can do them. Yet, remarkably, people find value in having a competent, recognized technician perform the work for them. Should I wish to sell it, I won't get back what was put in. I'll get back much more than if I had done it myself, though, and every dollar over a DIY job is one dollar less the mod cost.
I can't draw a conclusion from one piece of evidence, but right now it's 1-0.
Rincewind, on the other hand, has a post history, pictures, and very little to gain from his story. The defenders have the resale value of their equipment to gain, for one. The vast majority of the "out the scammer" threads on this site do, indeed, turn out to out a scammer.
I have a piece of modified gear. My Moscode 300 Power amp was modified by Steve Sank at a cost of $1200. I will happily open it up and show exactly what was done to anyone who will listen. Steve also opens it up and shows what it looks like right on his site. He describes the mods in depth, and anyone who wants to can do them. Yet, remarkably, people find value in having a competent, recognized technician perform the work for them. Should I wish to sell it, I won't get back what was put in. I'll get back much more than if I had done it myself, though, and every dollar over a DIY job is one dollar less the mod cost.
I can't draw a conclusion from one piece of evidence, but right now it's 1-0.
TRL has been around for a number of years. I remember seeing the price of their tube amps and and I said to myself What!, more expensive than the best of Jadis, Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Manley amps? For a mature company, they could have resolved this situation positively. Just my opinion.
Uncle Erik
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It's not the low post counts or new memberships of the defenders, what's curious is that they all showed up at the same time and have only been active in this thread. Did someone put a call out for the damage control team? Was there a lost sale because someone Googled TRL and found this thread?
It would be easy to put the controversy to rest. Some photos of modified units, a description of what was done (there are technical folks here who will understand, assuming something technical was done), and I'd love to know what goes into a $140,000 amplifier. Over the past few years, I've priced out some of the most expensive and exotic parts available. I'm not sure how to get to $40,000 in materials, let alone $140,000. Any explanation would be welcome.
It would be easy to put the controversy to rest. Some photos of modified units, a description of what was done (there are technical folks here who will understand, assuming something technical was done), and I'd love to know what goes into a $140,000 amplifier. Over the past few years, I've priced out some of the most expensive and exotic parts available. I'm not sure how to get to $40,000 in materials, let alone $140,000. Any explanation would be welcome.
Quote:
being one of those "under 100 posts" people makes me want to ask you about your job and lifestyle, 'coz i sure as hell don't have time to write approx 3.27 posts per day - this site is rather slow, at least on my dsl, and i have to really want to say something to wait for it to load pages..... i guess i'll have to go out and buy a bigger car and a badder stereo to compensate for my inadequate "post size"
you know rincewind from posts on a web forum, i know paul and trl from real-life experience, and from owning his gear.
oh yeah, one last thing. i was scanning new posts and saw an insulting, defamatory post about somebody i like and respect. i responded the only way i knew how. that's why my posts are in this thread( approx 5 out of 76). maybe when i grow up and have lots of posts i'll end up ifalsely accusing someone you like-- then you'll have to believe my insults are true 'coz i'll have lots of post then.
i'm done now. and no, i'm not going to post pix of my gear. if trl wants to, that's their business, but i suspect they won't. infer from that what you will-- you guys pretty much have anyway.
please never serve on a jury!!!!
| Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am willing to take Rincewind's word on this because I know Rincewind from his multiple posts here over a long period of time. Three defenders have emerged for TRL, none of them with more than 100 posts. I know audio fanatics, and they are frequent fliers on audio forums. Maybe the supporters are avid posters elsewhere, maybe not. But with nothing but new accounts and personal testimonials to back them up, they are suspect.. |
being one of those "under 100 posts" people makes me want to ask you about your job and lifestyle, 'coz i sure as hell don't have time to write approx 3.27 posts per day - this site is rather slow, at least on my dsl, and i have to really want to say something to wait for it to load pages..... i guess i'll have to go out and buy a bigger car and a badder stereo to compensate for my inadequate "post size"
you know rincewind from posts on a web forum, i know paul and trl from real-life experience, and from owning his gear.
oh yeah, one last thing. i was scanning new posts and saw an insulting, defamatory post about somebody i like and respect. i responded the only way i knew how. that's why my posts are in this thread( approx 5 out of 76). maybe when i grow up and have lots of posts i'll end up ifalsely accusing someone you like-- then you'll have to believe my insults are true 'coz i'll have lots of post then.
i'm done now. and no, i'm not going to post pix of my gear. if trl wants to, that's their business, but i suspect they won't. infer from that what you will-- you guys pretty much have anyway.
please never serve on a jury!!!!
olblueyez
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Like I said, pure BS, you spent more time defending this guy then would have taken to remove 4 screws and snap a photo.
| Originally Posted by fzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif being one of those "under 100 posts" people makes me want to ask you about your job and lifestyle, 'coz i sure as hell don't have time to write approx 3.27 posts per day - this site is rather slow, at least on my dsl, and i have to really want to say something to wait for it to load pages..... i guess i'll have to go out and buy a bigger car and a badder stereo to compensate for my inadequate "post size" you know rincewind from posts on a web forum, i know paul and trl from real-life experience, and from owning his gear. oh yeah, one last thing. i was scanning new posts and saw an insulting, defamatory post about somebody i like and respect. i responded the only way i knew how. that's why my posts are in this thread( approx 5 out of 76). maybe when i grow up and have lots of posts i'll end up ifalsely accusing someone you like-- then you'll have to believe my insults are true 'coz i'll have lots of post then. i'm done now. and no, i'm not going to post pix of my gear. if trl wants to, that's their business, but i suspect they won't. infer from that what you will-- you guys pretty much have anyway. please never serve on a jury!!!! |
Like I said, pure BS, you spent more time defending this guy then would have taken to remove 4 screws and snap a photo.
928GTS
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Stop being a wanker.
| Originally Posted by fzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif being one of those "under 100 posts" people makes me want to ask you about your job and lifestyle, 'coz i sure as hell don't have time to write approx 3.27 posts per day - this site is rather slow, at least on my dsl, and i have to really want to say something to wait for it to load pages..... i guess i'll have to go out and buy a bigger car and a badder stereo to compensate for my inadequate "post size" you know rincewind from posts on a web forum, i know paul and trl from real-life experience, and from owning his gear. oh yeah, one last thing. i was scanning new posts and saw an insulting, defamatory post about somebody i like and respect. i responded the only way i knew how. that's why my posts are in this thread( approx 5 out of 76). maybe when i grow up and have lots of posts i'll end up ifalsely accusing someone you like-- then you'll have to believe my insults are true 'coz i'll have lots of post then. i'm done now. and no, i'm not going to post pix of my gear. if trl wants to, that's their business, but i suspect they won't. infer from that what you will-- you guys pretty much have anyway. please never serve on a jury!!!! |
Stop being a wanker.
olblueyez
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These guys dont want to open a peice of equipment so they cant see how badly they have been ripped off.
Sherwood
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
And I know you from nowhere, so why should I believe what you say?
I'm not attacking you here, fzman, nor your posting habits. I'm also not lionizing mine, which are more embarassing to me than anything else. You have still failed to provide anything even resembling the evidence levelled against TRL, asserting that since you know him, we should believe you.That's just not good enough. If you want to maintain that it is, that's fine, but know you're doing nothing to clear his good name.
To recap, I am inclined to believe Rincewind for three reasons:
1) He is a tenured member here, where I too am a tenured member. I know what to expect from him.
2) He provided both anecdotal and photographic evidence.
3) He has nothing personally to gain from defaming TRL.
You have fulfilled none of these. Do you have any compelling evidence aside from your word to refute what Rincewind has said? If so, by all means post it here so we can call off the witch hunt. I'm sure Rincewind would be happier knowing that his misfortune was unique.
| Originally Posted by fzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif you know rincewind from posts on a web forum, i know paul and trl from real-life experience, and from owning his gear. |
And I know you from nowhere, so why should I believe what you say?
I'm not attacking you here, fzman, nor your posting habits. I'm also not lionizing mine, which are more embarassing to me than anything else. You have still failed to provide anything even resembling the evidence levelled against TRL, asserting that since you know him, we should believe you.That's just not good enough. If you want to maintain that it is, that's fine, but know you're doing nothing to clear his good name.
To recap, I am inclined to believe Rincewind for three reasons:
1) He is a tenured member here, where I too am a tenured member. I know what to expect from him.
2) He provided both anecdotal and photographic evidence.
3) He has nothing personally to gain from defaming TRL.
You have fulfilled none of these. Do you have any compelling evidence aside from your word to refute what Rincewind has said? If so, by all means post it here so we can call off the witch hunt. I'm sure Rincewind would be happier knowing that his misfortune was unique.
Sherwood
Headphoneus Supremus
Quote:
I make time enough to do what I enjoy. I'll assume you do as well, and ask you to keep the ad hominem garbage to yourself.
| Originally Posted by fzman /img/forum/go_quote.gif being one of those "under 100 posts" people makes me want to ask you about your job and lifestyle, 'coz i sure as hell don't have time to write approx 3.27 posts per day |
I make time enough to do what I enjoy. I'll assume you do as well, and ask you to keep the ad hominem garbage to yourself.
I've always been leery of mods upgrade. Unless the modifier is already intimately familiar with the design and circuitry of the hardware, he/she has to essentially reverse engineer it first to figure out what to change to improve on the original design. And without the design specs and schematics, it is not simple. Then there is the question of reference. One would need two units, the original, unmodified unit for reference and the modified unit. Then there is the question of how to measure and quantify the improvements. Using just your ears to detect any change is not good enough. We all know that our hearing is different from one another.
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