[Inks]

 
I suspect the 4G touch has lower output impedance like the Ipad/Iphone 4 compared to the 3G. x2 on the rest, I use the same DAPs. 

The new touch 4G is quite a step up from my 2G, which might be similar to the 3G in hardware. Certainly, I've noticed the 2G';s behaviour when driving certain BA earphones. The only real area I prefer the touch 4G to the clip+ is that its background noise is lower with the same crazy BA earphones. The better separation is nice, I suppose, but not that big of a deal. Of course, both have crap EQ's unless you install EQu or Equalizer on the touch, or RB on the clip, and stock, the touch does real gapless.
 
If all I did with the touch was music, I'd find it sorely matched. But it does everything from mail, to books, to dictionary, to games, for me.
 

 

[shigzeo]

That was my assumption, too, but I was even more impressed that the already very quiet background of the touch 2G has been improved on. 

 

[elfary]

Given that by reading nwavguy reviews i came across a critical matter that i did not know about (the difficulties that multidriver ba iems pose -frequency response wise- for amps -specially when amps have some output impedance) i am driving some listening tests with my 2009 iPod Classic and 2009 iPhone 3GS via headphone out and via lod + ibasso T3.
 
I'm doing this because i do my main listening through Shure SE530 (3 ba's -and 1 crossover i guess for a 2 way network-)
 
I'm almost sure by now that when the iBasso t3 comes into the equation on both idevices i notice an increased upper mid/lower treble response. The bass quantity is quite similar but with an improved resolution. Thus my guessing is that both 2009 iPod Classic and iPhone 3GS headphones out struggle  just a little bit on the upper mid region when driving a Shure SE530 that is.
 
The most funny thing is that i think that on badly mastered records (Almost any pop/rock album released on the 21th century) my ears like more the "flawed" response of the headphone out since i find it bit more forgiving (Warmer?). However on a properly tracked, mixed and mastered album the LOD+iBasso T3 combo really pays off.

 

[shigzeo]

This is common knowledge in a lot of places, but for some reason, the portable forum in particular, and HF in general, has never caught onto this, no matter how 'experienced' the ears.

 

[elfary]

I concur that's why i'am kind of shocked.
 
You can spend thousand of dollars on state of the art multidriver ba's capable of stunning accuracy but if you pair it with the wrong player what reach your eardrums might be a heavily distorted sound - frequency wise - (I'm calling distortion to the random outcome of the interaction between the erratic iem resistance and the one of the amp output).
 
Honestly when i listen to the SE530 amped through T3 i would be hard pressed to tell that the treble is severely rolled off (As is the official truth in headfi)... but when i do listen to the SE530 unamped (Specially with the iPhone 3GS) i would call its treble recessed without a blink.
 
The point i'm trying to get across is that it is of paramount importance knowing some technical details as the impedance bridging that DAP+Armatures bring to the table. And that's when people like you or nwavguy or Yuric are really game changers. For me at least.

 

[nwavguy]

Quote:

I concur that's why i'am kind of shocked.

...
 
The point i'm trying to get across is that it is of paramount importance knowing some technical details as the impedance bridging that DAP+Armatures bring to the table. And that's when people like you or nwavguy or Yuric are really game changers. For me at least.

 
You're welcome. I'm trying to help out where I can with publishing useful info. I have so much I want to test and share, but only so much free time to devote to the forums and the blog.
 
I just posted a Cowon i9 review, I'm currently testing the NuForce uDAC-2 and Sansa Fuze, and I'm also working on an article regarding "what matters most".
 

 

[elfary]

That''s really nice man. Education is always welcome. I'll keep lurking at your blog. Thanks

 

[brawl]

 
Hi I wish to ask to you an advice if possible, I wish to buy a new mp3 player or just still mine... but I do not know well wich is the best choice (not exactly about wich player but more or less on one other thing).
 
I wish to give some more bass to headphones sennheiser px 200 II that I wish to buy because are very portable and closed, I'm asking and serching around so I have found this options:
 
 
1) I buy Fiio e5 that have a sound effect called bass boost for my old crap 2GB mp3 player.
 
2)  I have to buy a new mp3 player that use bass boost effect (but I have not much money at the moment for headphones + high priced mp3 player)
 
3) I have to buy a new mp3 player (that would be wonderful) with EQ and good sound quality and I know that Clip+ sound really -amazing- is economic and have a good EQ if you know how to use it. 
About how to use EQ I read on this forum pages the big discovery: that if you set all the 5 bands at +4 the soud is exactly the same of the standard mode, that is excellent. So starting with +4 at all the bands you can then procede to EQ very well the sound.
 
At home I have a years 1990 mixer for my creative 2.1 and I know a little bit how to get fun with those things, but I still very ignorant about how to use it -well-, I can say I just enjoy it without understand what exactly it is. It is 5 bands like the Clip+ but mine have 5 bands for each channel left and right.
 
Well, at this moment as I said I use an old model of MP3 player and a new one would be 
very good because mine have AAA battery, and because it is 2GB and because it have not EQ or bass boost effect to enchance a little the bass on PX 200 II that I like.
So considering to leave the option old Mp3 plauer + new Fiio e5 (I shoul buy one for my old mp3 player) would be a good choice maybe. And spend the money for the Clip+ would be better. 
 
Do you belive that trough the 5 bands of Clip EQ I can obtain the same bass boost effect that come from the Fiio5 or something near useful?
 
 
Thanks for help and sorry for my bad english! 
 
 
edit
 
I have found extra bass options for rockbox software
 
http://download.rockbox.org/daily/manual/rockbox-sansaclip/rockbox-buildch6.html#x9-1080006.8

 

[Townyj]

I really appreciate your post! Such a good read and you have cleared up alot of information! I love my clip+! It just seems so viable over something like my bulky iphone. Sansa really needs to pick up the game and produce another winner like the clip+, double the battery life and give us 32gb of onboard memory with a SD slot Im dreaming i know!
 
Thanks again! Double thumbs up!

 

[xXFallenAngelXx]

Nice Review..I've been looking for a cheap mp3 player for when I work out and this is definitely on the top of my list

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Tonight I noticed something interesting while listening with my Clip+ -> iBasso PB1 -> HD 600.  I have the Clip+ set to maximum volume into the PB1, with Rockbox installed and all processing off.
 
At the end of Even In My Dreams by Afro Celt Sound System, I noticed some pretty bad distortion that I had never heard before.  Well, I compared my LAME V0 rip to the FLAC, and it's in both of them.  I then checked the waveform, and nope, no clipping (it sounds a bit similar to the clipping you get from underpowering an Infinity EMIT tweeter).
 
Then I tested it on both my uDAC and my Thinkpad's line out as well (both into the PB1) - it was still present, but very much attenuated.
 
Well, figuring the problem had to be with the Clip+, I tried it again, turning down the volume a few notches - the distortion was down to about the same level as the uDAC and my TP's line out.  Even one notch down from max reduces it; I haven't been able to tell how much of a further improvement (if at all) turning it down more is.  But if you compare the Clip+ at max volume to one notch down, it's an easily noticeable difference - even easier than the 320 kbps mp3 killer samples I've heard.
 
I loaded a 20 second clip with the distortion here.
 
It should be audible at...

Spoiler

 :07-:08 and from :10 to just before the end

 
Give it a whirl yourself - will not be easy to ABX it since it's a volume thing (I know this isn't the Sound Science backwater but this sort of thread makes it fitting), but if you try (outputting to an external amp) it it should be really obvious if your Clip+ performs the same as mine.
 
I don't know exactly what's going on - there's nothing at 0 dB and no clipping in the file, but perhaps the output is clipping anyway in the the PB1 despite NwAvGuy's measurements.  Now, I don't know the PB1's exact input impedance but I think it's safe to assume that it's high... so that means the Clip+ shouldn't be current clipping.  Perhaps it is voltage clipping - I don't know, I don't have the equipment to test it.  Perhaps someone else can, if it's not just my clip that has this problem.
 
But it would definitely be interesting if others give a listen to this.
 
And for now, I'd recommend running your Clip+ at at least one notch down from the maximum volume if you are using it as a line out to an amplifier.

 

[legcramp]

0db is the real max volume, any higher than that is due to using Rockbox which increases the maximum volume. They warn you that clipping might occur when using the additional volume higher than 0db.
 
Quote:

snip

 

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

0db is the real max volume, any higher than that is due to using Rockbox which increases the maximum volume. They warn you that clipping might occur when using the additional volume higher than 0db.
 

 
Problem solved...  So it was due to my lack of understanding of Rockbox's volume interface.  I thought the exclamation point on the volume bar was perhaps a warning to users to not listen too loud with earbuds...  Well, I guess it was a warning, just not the one I was expecting!
 
So above 0 dB is digitally compressed then?  Interesting.
 
Thanks!

 

[dfkt]

Yes, Rockbox defines 0dB as the maximum any player's hardware can handle, then gives an additional 6dB to play with. Might be useful for really quiet tracks, but I'd rather see this dB-boost feature being optional, not enabled by default.