[Uncle Erik]

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Originally Posted by audioholik /img/forum/go_quote.gif speaking on SACD here's good news for all jazz lovers - in 2009 Analogue Productions will release Impulse Records catalog on SACD Heads up, Jazz Lovers! IMPULSE for SACD and 45 RPM vinyl from Acoustic Sounds! - SH Forums Verve Music Group can't wait

Me too! I'll pick up everything they release.

Has anyone noticed that certain OOP SACD prices have been going up? There's a few in my collection that I could sell for more than what I paid for them.

Maybe this format still has a bit of life left. If Sony were smart, they'd focus on selling discs to people who actually pay for their music.

 

[audioholik]

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Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmmm, could it be that the mastering is different ? The only serious experiment to test if humans can hear the difference between High Rez and RedBook using 60 Audiophiles as subjects failed to find even one person who could reliably tell the difference between High rez and 16/44.1.

60 audiophiles couldn't tell the difference? lol any source to that, at least Steve Hoffman, Analogue Productions, Mobile Fidelity, BIS, Harmonia Mundi, Pentatone, Channel Classics, etc. hear the difference

PS no, mastering is the same

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by audioholik /img/forum/go_quote.gif 60 audiophiles couldn't tell the difference? lol any source to that

Happy to oblige

Audibility of a CD-Standard A/D/A Loop Inserted into High-Resolution Audio Playback, Meyer B. and Moran, D. (2007), Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol. 55, No. 9, 2007 September, p775 - 779.

available through the AES $5 for members , it is a good read, also see

DVD-Audio versus SACD: Perceptual Discrimination of Digital Coding Formats, Blech, D. and Yang, M., (2004) 116th Convention of the Audio Engineering Society, Berlin, Germany.

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at least Steve Hoffman, Analogue Productions, Mobile Fidelity, BIS, Harmonia Mundi, Pentatone, Channel Classics, etc. hear the difference PS no, mastering is the same

In level matched blind tests ?, do you have a citation for that ?

 

[audioholik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Happy to oblige Audibility of a CD-Standard A/D/A Loop Inserted into High-Resolution Audio Playback, Meyer B. and Moran, D. (2007), Journal of the Audio Engineering Society, Vol. 55, No. 9, 2007 September, p775 - 779. available through the AES $5 for members , it is a good read, also see DVD-Audio versus SACD: Perceptual Discrimination of Digital Coding Formats, Blech, D. and Yang, M., (2004) 116th Convention of the Audio Engineering Society, Berlin, Germany. In level matched blind tests ?, do you have a citation for that ?

yes, there was a study on DVD-A vs SACD comparison, where sample group of people couldn't hear the difference, you can find it here Hi-Rez Highway but what's that proving in case of SACD vs CD? Of course you can relay on this 2007 paper, but the authors didn't even provide the basic information, such as, on what equipment these "tests" were conducted Audio News for October 26, 2007

and what if the same sample group of people couldn't distinguish mp3 320kbps vs CD, would that mean we should stick with mp3?

no thank you, I'm staying with SACD.

 

[nick_charles]

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Originally Posted by audioholik /img/forum/go_quote.gif yes, there was a study on DVD-A vs SACD comparison, where sample group of people couldn't hear the difference, you can find it here Hi-Rez Highway but what's that proving in case of SACD vs CD?

That is the Blech and Yang paper , yes. It proves nothing about SACD vs CD I just added it as an interesting related paper.

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Of course you can relay on this 2007 paper, but the authors didn't even provide the basic information, such as, on what equipment these "tests" were conducted Audio News for October 26, 2007[1] and what if the same sample group of people couldn't distinguish mp3 320kbps vs CD, would that mean we should stick with mp3?[2] no thank you, I'm staying with SACD.[3]

1. The authors listed their equipment

BAS Experiment Explanation page - Oct 2007

2. Irrelevant speculation.

3. Your choice of course

 

[audioholik]

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Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1. The authors listed their equipment

let me just say that the listening room looks very professional

I cannot comment on the equipment used though as I didn't listen to it, but looking at the players alone I find their choice at least strange, 2 of 3 players were below $ 200, Pioneer DV-563A = $153, Yamaha DVD-S1500 = $99... I would rather like to see some $500-1000 players or even $1500 players when you can actually hear the benefits of SACD

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Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif 2. Irrelevant speculation.

very relevant, and very probable the effect of such a study conducted on the same group of people would bring similar outcome, no audible difference, if you played mp3 on player for $99 its very probable you wouldn't be able to recognize between CD and mp3

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Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif 3. Your choice of course

and yours too.

cheers

 

[nick_charles]

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Originally Posted by audioholik /img/forum/go_quote.gif let me just say that the listening room looks very professional

It was a very quiet room with background noise level below 20db, i.e much quieter than most rooms.

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I cannot comment on the equipment used though as I didn't listen to it, but looking at the players alone I find their choice at least strange, 2 of 3 players were below $ 200, Pioneer DV-563A = $153, Yamaha DVD-S1500 = $99... I would rather like to see some $500-1000 players or even $1500 players when you can actually hear the benefits of SACD

So basically you are saying that only expensive SACD players sound better than CD players ?, so can I infer from that that SACD as a format is not inherently superior to CD but some good SACD players are superior to CD players, and if so all CD players ?. What about these 3 High Res players is defective ?, their specs are pretty decent, what can they not do with regard to SACD ?

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very relevant, and very probable the effect of such a study conducted on the same group of people would bring similar outcome, no audible difference,

No, you are speculating about the results of a test that has not taken place. You are basically putting forward a logically flawed argument that the ability to detect the difference between CD and MP3 is exactly the same as the ablity to detect High res from CD. Shall I just say that these are wholly independent questions and no causal or acausal relationship has ever been established between these factors anywhere. In a round about way you are blaming the listeners, listeners about whom you know nothing whatsoever and yet who you assume are all crap listeners.

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if you played mp3 on player for $99 its very probable you wouldn't be able to recognize between CD and mp3

This question is about CD and SACD not Mp3. Stop going Palin on the issue

 

[audioholik]

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Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif So basically you are saying that only expensive SACD players sound better than CD players ?

I wouldn't call $500-1000 players expensive

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Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif No, you are speculating about the results of a test that has not taken place. You are basically putting forward a logically flawed argument that the ability to detect the difference between

I'm just saying that making tests (mp3 320kbps/CD) on $99 player could bring the same result - no audible difference.

PS thanks for posting this additional data on the study.

 

[ffrr]

I have several SACD Titles and believe that it is a very good sounding format, albeit one plagued with practicality issues. There are a good many labels still focusing on the format, so there is no reason to give up on it...what I dont understand, is...why isnt there room for all formats? Lossless ones, anyway..

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/928867-post21.html

 

[nick_charles]

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Originally Posted by audioholik /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wouldn't call $500-1000 players expensive

The Sony XA777ES one of their test machines retailed at $3000.

The Yamaha retailed at $400 when released not $99

The Pioneer retailed at $250 when released.

Obviously stuff falls in price after a year or so when it is not the latest or has been superceded, and of course retail and street price are different.

 

[nick_charles]

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Originally Posted by ffrr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have several SACD Titles and believe that it is a very good sounding format, albeit one plagued with practicality issues. There are a good many labels still focusing on the format, so there is no reason to give up on it...what I dont understand, is...why isnt there room for all formats? Lossless ones, anyway.. [/url]

SACD and DVD-A may be technically superior to CD but neither has been adopted by non-audiophile consumers in any great number.

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/news/0508/riaa_2008.pdf

Even with the decline on phsyical sales CD still outsells SACD and DVD-A by ~ 1000 to 1. I would not bet on either's survival.

 

[soundboy]

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Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would not bet on either's survival.

SACD will celebrate the format's 10th anniversary in 2009

 

[ffrr]

in order to maintain the integrity of the DSD stream, it is necessary to feed the audio from the analogue mastering into a DSD A/D converter and cut that signal straight onto a disc without any further processing. it is for that reason that a lot of the SACD titles are mastered from the original tapes.

 

[SACD-Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ffrr /img/forum/go_quote.gif in order to maintain the integrity of the DSD stream, it is necessary to feed the audio from the analogue mastering into a DSD A/D converter and cut that signal straight onto a disc without any further processing. it is for that reason that a lot of the SACD titles are mastered from the original tapes.

YEP...

Very enjoyable medium. I have collected hundreds of SACD's and the collecting is still growing with Germany and Japan releasing new materials....

Not for everyone, but is for me.

 

[ffrr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SACD-Man /img/forum/go_quote.gif YEP... Very enjoyable medium. I have collected hundreds of SACD's and the collecting is still growing with Germany and Japan releasing new materials.... Not for everyone, but is for me.

I like it a lot too, of course there are some bad titles as with any format, but with all the available budget-friendly sacd/universal player options, there is no reason for anyone to take a " this format vs that one" stance.

enjoy them all! just keep em lossless!

SACD Man,

I reccomend checking out these labels..

http://www.stockfisch-records.de/stc...ckfisch_e.html

http://www.tacet.de/main/seite1.php?...hp&layout=news

http://www.marecordings.com/main/caro_mitis_intro.php

http://www.mdg.de/indexeng.htm

http://www.opus3records.com/

http://www.fone.it/index_en.php