[elrod-tom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnB180 elrod tom, Did you favor the 3000's over the 5000s?

Yes...I wasn't crazy about the 3K's, but I didn't hate them!!

 

[aerius]

Let's put it this way. Suppose I took an Orpheus and a KSC-35 and ran both of them out of my crap-ass early 90's Walkman, and then declared that the Orpheus only has marginally better detail than the Koss, and that the Koss is the better overall headphone. What do you think the reaction would be to such a "review"?

Drarthurwells has done just that, though not to the extreme of my example. It's a rigged "review" where the result is of questionable value. The K701 has been deliberately handicapped in 2 ways; running it out of an unsuitable amp and putting a resistor in series with it.

 

[Clutz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius Let's put it this way. Suppose I took an Orpheus and a KSC-35 and ran both of them out of my crap-ass early 90's Walkman, and then declared that the Orpheus only has marginally better detail than the Koss, and that the Koss is the better overall headphone. What do you think the reaction would be to such a "review"? Drarthurwells has done just that, though not to the extreme of my example. It's a rigged "review" where the result is of questionable value. The K701 has been deliberately handicapped in 2 ways; running it out of an unsuitable amp and putting a resistor in series with it.

All your bases are belong to KSC-35s.

 

[ScubaSteve87]

and whats that amp that everyone needs to buy?

 

[RnB180]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom Yes...I wasn't crazy about the 3K's, but I didn't hate them!!

Thats very interesting,
what were better about the 3000's over the 5000's?
Were they smoother or less emphasized on top end?

 

[rocktboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferbose Putting resistor in series to evaluate premium headphone's sound--that's no good. So it does not matter what sounds better under this context. It's a lose-lose situation.

can you elaborate on this? because it's essentially what an Etymotic P-S cable is.....

 

[rocktboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius Let's put it this way. Suppose I took an Orpheus and a KSC-35 and ran both of them out of my crap-ass early 90's Walkman, and then declared that the Orpheus only has marginally better detail than the Koss, and that the Koss is the better overall headphone. What do you think the reaction would be to such a "review"? Drarthurwells has done just that, though not to the extreme of my example. It's a rigged "review" where the result is of questionable value. The K701 has been deliberately handicapped in 2 ways; running it out of an unsuitable amp and putting a resistor in series with it.

I thought that by putting a series resistor in front of the K701 made it MORE suitable to the amp? Am I mis-understanding something here?

 

[chris719]

The point is that the amp is a poor design from a technical standpoint. AKG K701, SA5000, and 98% of other headphones are designed to be driven by an output impedance of as close to 0 as possible. A large mismatch like in this case causes very noticeable things to happen; mostly bloated bass and a darker/warmer sound. A lot of the sound of some tube gear is due to the high output impedances. What art is doing is essentially saying he likes the SA5000 better with tone controls on and those same tone control settings make K701 not as good.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocktboy can you elaborate on this? because it's essentially what an Etymotic P-S cable is.....

The Etys are one of the greatest exceptions to the rule: they are 5-ohm drivers which implicitly need serial resistances between 22 ohm (P) and 102 ohm (S, B) for a passably flat frequency response. (Note: these aren't classic dynamic sound transducers, but balanced-armature drivers!) Whereas 99% of the dynamic headphones need a serial resistance close to zero to achieve optimal frequency response without excessive midbass emphasis.


Quote:

Originally Posted by chris719 ...What art is doing is essentially saying he likes the SA5000 better with tone controls on and those same tone control settings make K701 not as good.

Yeah... something like that.

.

 

[PsychoZX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RnB180 Thats very interesting, what were better about the 3000's over the 5000's? Were they smoother or less emphasized on top end?

Myo, given your taste in headphones I think it is safe to say that you probably would care for anything in Sony's SA line up.

 

[drarthurwells]

Aerius: Let's put it this way. Suppose I took an Orpheus and a KSC-35 and ran both of them out of my crap-ass early 90's Walkman, and then declared that the Orpheus only has marginally better detail than the Koss, and that the Koss is the better overall headphone. What do you think the reaction would be to such a "review"? Drarthurwells has done just that, though not to the extreme of my example. It's a rigged "review" where the result is of questionable value. The K701 has been deliberately handicapped in 2 ways; running it out of an unsuitable amp and putting a resistor in series with it.




Quote:

Originally Posted by rocktboy I thought that by putting a series resistor in front of the K701 made it MORE suitable to the amp? Am I mis-understanding something here?

Art: No, you got it right and Aerius has it wrong. Don't try to point out Aerius's error - I already did that in a previous post on this thread and he obviously ignored it.

Using the BLAudio preamp's headphone jack (where a 300 ohm or higher headphone load is best) with either the SA5000 or the AKG K701, is much better with the SA5000 but not good with either headphone.

Adding 75 ohm resistance to the output to the headphones, improves both headphones, but now the SA5000 sounds real good while the K701 only sounds good. I have ordered some 100 ohm and 150 ohm resistors to see if a point is reached where the K701 is better than the SA5000 or not.

I have used several preamps with headphone jacks in the past and none of them have been really good - just good with higher impedance headphones like the HD650.

The BLAudio battery powered preamp/headphone amp, like any high end preamp with a headphone jack, likes 300 ohms or more headphone impedance.

I use it the ER 4S (100 ohms) and it does great. The BLAudio is perhaps smoother and sweeter than any soldid state headphone amp made and is worth impedance manipulation to use other headphones with it. I have discovered such a happy match with the SA5000 when 75 ohms impedance is added to it.

Why does my report of these facts upset so many people here? I am sure your amp is great, as are your headphones, or otherwise you would not own them, but does that mean you resent it when someone else tries to alert you of something new?

As far as the SA5000 hatred, I can well understand it - they can sound bad with some CDs or some passages in otherwise good CDs. They can also sound better than anything else at times.

Overall the K701 sounds better.

But I am happy to find something to make the SA5000 (and ER4S) sound better with little compromise to its sterling characteristics. I will ship the BLAudio to anyone to try out, with a prior deposit to me, from which shipping costs will be deducted in refunding the amp upon its return to me in the same condition sent.

 

[applebook]

The difference between darth and Yikes is that the latter makes it very clear that he's expressing only his opinion and not facts. Darth purposely offends others and goes out of his way to rile up board members.

My suggestion is that everyone ignores him, and he'll probably leave.

 

[Purgatos]

The SA5000 seems to be the most controversial headphone ever.

 

[applebook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purgatos The SA5000 seems to be the most controversial headphone ever.

That's only because the few Sony fanboys on here are so riotous and insistent.

 

[spike33]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patu We all have our own image of 'neutral sound'. I see nothing wrong there if someone thinks that SA5000 is more neutral than K701. I would personally say that K701 is more on neutral side but SA5000 comes right after it.

You are confusing neutral and natural. Neutral sound is subjective, only your own ears can tell whether there's coloration or not. Neutrality is overrated and practically useless. Naturalness is objective. Does it sound realistic or not. Some people may like SA5000 but don't try to convince the rest of us it sounds like a live concert. K701 is more real to life.