[Bananiq]

doublepost

 

[Bananiq]

Quote:

FLAC is a compressed loseless format. But in terms of reproduction, although tonality is similar or same, it has lack of micro-details, air-ness compared to wav.     
 
my 2 cents......

Now this man Call I The Audiophile

 

[Hero Kid]

Call it what you will. If he's happy that's all that matters ;P

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

FLAC is a compressed loseless format. But in terms of reproduction, although tonality is similar or same, it has lack of micro-details, air-ness compared to wav.     
 
my 2 cents......

WAV itself is compressed digital audio - and I've had a problem with it since the days of its emergence till now. Moving from any 1-bit quantisation to so-called CD quality has been a major step down. FLAC? Quite like AM/FM radio, but that is only compared to the horrid quality of a 16-bit wav fail (yep, you read that right). 
 
16-bit itself is a rejection from nature, so far below the threshold of human hearing (really, there is no so-called science that will lead me to believe otherwise, not after what I have experienced) that I can ABx with 98% accuracy. The lost 2% is down to stuff like tiny shifts in the earth or worse yet, the affect they have on my desk that supports all my audio stuff. 
 
I've invested heavily into ERS paper and since upgrading my power cables to Nordheim (a newer better Viking brand), noticeable differences present themselves like jesters amid fanfare. Firstly, there is this haze. It pervades everywhere, falling on the hapless victims who've hidden behind compressed audio for decades, smothering so-called audiophiles who go in for things like FLAC and ALAC, and surely busting up every overgrown newbie in the court.
 
But that ain't all. Consider how you hold your player. When I use my left arm, there is a very slight (though my ears can hear it) drop in frequency response, especially when playing anything worse than WAV. I'll admit that the S:Flo is better than any player I've used before, but that frequency response is noticeable. 
 
Let's not even get into which firmwares and decoders can actually properly decode software - that will start a Shrek war that you won't want to hear or come up against. My arguments are bloody brick houses.
 

 

[bertchai]

 
Quote:

WAV itself is compressed digital audio - and I've had a problem with it since the days of its emergence till now. Moving from any 1-bit quantisation to so-called CD quality has been a major step down. FLAC? Quite like AM/FM radio, but that is only compared to the horrid quality of a 16-bit wav fail (yep, you read that right). 
 
16-bit itself is a rejection from nature, so far below the threshold of human hearing (really, there is no so-called science that will lead me to believe otherwise, not after what I have experienced) that I can ABx with 98% accuracy. The lost 2% is down to stuff like tiny shifts in the earth or worse yet, the affect they have on my desk that supports all my audio stuff. 
 
I've invested heavily into ERS paper and since upgrading my power cables to Nordheim (a newer better Viking brand), noticeable differences present themselves like jesters amid fanfare. Firstly, there is this haze. It pervades everywhere, falling on the hapless victims who've hidden behind compressed audio for decades, smothering so-called audiophiles who go in for things like FLAC and ALAC, and surely busting up every overgrown newbie in the court.
 
But that ain't all. Consider how you hold your player. When I use my left arm, there is a very slight (though my ears can hear it) drop in frequency response, especially when playing anything worse than WAV. I'll admit that the S:Flo is better than any player I've used before, but that frequency response is noticeable. 
 
Let's not even get into which firmwares and decoders can actually properly decode software - that will start a Shrek war that you won't want to hear or come up against. My arguments are bloody brick houses.
 

oh...  really like to find out how wav file is actually compressed, while I listen to LPCM wav file all the time which is an uncompressed format.  Are u actually referring to the lose due to the low 16-bit quantisation when Philips first developed it with ejection of the information that is below the threshold of human hearing?  If so then, that's the fact of life that we have to face as all audiophile knows that sound that best despite the much lower channel separation of it.  But these portable player are quite handy now-a-days.  Just have to make the best out of the limitation.

 

[qc98]

Has this discussion moved into an area that belongs in another forum?
 
For my part, I am very attracted to the s:flo2 sound.  There is a fullnes and detail that I do not get with my Fuzes (both Rockboxed and not) and my clip+.  The fact that I am willing to put up with its interface in order to use it should be a testament to the rewards it ultimately provides.
 
To be fair, I also have to say that I don't try to rank one DAP or DAP/Amp combo against others.  While I admire those with the talents to do so (and I am being very frank in my admiration), I merely tend to ask myself the questions with each "Do I like this?  Does this capture me for some reason or other?".  Like my early days with wine, I have not yet developed the abilities to analyze what I am tasting (soundwise) and convey the impression to words.
 
What I can say is, I am delighted that I bought the s:flo2.  It absolutely communicates to me the richnes and detail of the music that appeals to me.

 

[Bennyboy71]

Shigzeo was parodying audiophile pretension, just in case you take his post seriously.
 
Or at least, I hope he was.

 

[jdog]

Very nice analogy, qc98.  I agree with you completely.  I do like the sflo2 sound.  It is "richer" to my ears than the classic ipod and it does not display the distortion that my clip demonstrates on occasion.  In my opinion, it is a very solid player, and I am using HO with Normal EQ setting.  I'll admit that headphones do make a big difference for me; among the several I own, I really enjoy the sound I get with the Westone 2's. The Westone 2's appear to "bring out" some of the higher frequencies, yet maintain the right amount of bass for me.  I'm sure other headphones would impress me similarly, but for now I'm quite happy.  I don't have any "solid amps" at present to adequately judge the LO, but I am very pleased with the sounds I am hearing with my current set-up.

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

Shigzeo was parodying audiophile pretension, just in case you take his post seriously.
 
Or at least, I hope he was.

The man doth have eyes.

 

[lisztian420]

haha

 

[marcello]

Is it bad to play directly from LO to headphones?
 
Can it damage the phones? or how about adding resistors in the path? LO is loud enough and is cleaner than HO. HO of S:flo2 can't drive my DBA-02 enough, I won't try LO +DBA because of too much power in it.
 
I plugged it directly to my 250ohm's and it played pretty good. No distortion, no volume control. Actually LO is much louder than HO and my DT990s need a lot of juiice. It worked nicely, good amp will improve it, but I liked it.

 

[Anaxilus]

Nope not bad unless your phones are very sensitive and low impedance, you could damage something.  Are you using the Sflo EQ?  It seems to drop the gain for me so I don't get enough volume from HO unless I use normal.

 

[marcello]

No I don't use EQ because of the reason given(quiter output). It seems like when I slowly increase the volume by the volume control, the rise is not linear, mainly it stucks somewhere in 90% and then it stays the same, so 90% and 100% according volume control produce the samel output to me.
 
It's still not ideal player for me, but this LO is great, I like it a lot

 

[flaming_june]

Love the LO

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

Is it bad to play directly from LO to headphones?
 
Can it damage the phones? or how about adding resistors in the path? LO is loud enough and is cleaner than HO. HO of S:flo2 can't drive my DBA-02 enough, I won't try LO +DBA because of too much power in it.
 
I plugged it directly to my 250ohm's and it played pretty good. No distortion, no volume control. Actually LO is much louder than HO and my DT990s need a lot of juiice. It worked nicely, good amp will improve it, but I liked it.

My DT880 600Ω are waaay too loud from the headphone out at full volume and the LO is about as loud or louder. Listening at that level is a formula for... hearing loss.