[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindowsX /img/forum/go_quote.gif I see, anti-cabler really exists.

There is no such a thing of an anti-cabler, we all need a cable, good or bad, but just becasue one spend $2000.00 on a power cable, does not make it better to a $50.00 one electrically, or performance wise, that is EE, not voodoo ...

We have a lot of electronic applications, in which the noise and anomalies from the AC line, are indeed a problem (the audio is not one of them BTW) devices that work in frequencies far above the audible spectrum, like RF, and above, etc...the audio is real simple, in comparison to other electronics we have in our homes, and not even in those complicated circuits, and aplications, the solution is to get an expensive power cord, the power cord alone does nothing, if you do not condition the AC that is behind it...and in that case the conditioner is what makes the difference, not the cord...

Also for some audio devices a better AC will make a difference, for others it will not, depending on how the PSU was designed, and how they use the power, for example some tube amps use AC for the filaments, in those cases the noise is more critical...and so on...

Some manufacturers reco not to use any power conditioner or fancy cables in their equipment, others do not say a word, but what you will not find, is any that reco any of those solutions, unless they made them, like PS and maybe Monster, and maybe others that slip my mind now...Becasue that is in someway, admiting that the PSUs they designed and used are flawed...or marketing BS to sell the other stuff...

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl /img/forum/go_quote.gif I used the Michael Wolff Bohica when I owned the RPX-33 (it's now on my RP010), and it's about as perfect a combo as you could hope. Unfortunately, that cord will run you half what that amp costs, so it's not exactly a screaming bargain. They also never come up used. For a cheap cord, the Violet is a great alternative.

I would hardly call a $250 power cable a 'cheap cord'; that honor goes to Volex

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is no such a thing of an anti-cabler, we all need a cable, good or bad, but just becasue one spend $2000.00 on a power cable, does not make it better to a $50.00 one electrically, or performance wise, that is EE, not voodoo ...

Thank you for your insight and your through understanding of EE and material science. Some of us who have gone through the EE curriculum know when to keep our mouth shut because we don't know everything that goes into a power cord. Always remember all your equations are just approximation, its not the real world; things in the real world may behave differently from what the equation tells you, atleast when it comes to secondary, tertiary effects

For example, I can hear the difference in power cable, I can find no equation to govern such behavior, so I keep my mouth shut

 

[jpelg]

Vangelis (and others),

What kind of wiring is in your home? Is it an older house, with older wiring? Or is it new construction? How is the AC quality from the outlet?

I found that power cables made a bigger difference when I lived in an old house with old, crappy wiring. In newer construction, with better power at the mains, they seem to yield lesser benefits, ime. Admittedly, this is quite unscientific, and not a comprehensive comparison as in Mark's extensive reviews.

As a slight aside, I found that the Monster 3500 actually diminished dynamics on my amps. I didn't realize it until after I sold it, and used standard surge protectors in the interim before getting a better conditioner (I still haven't purchased a new conditioner).

Going forward, I plan to implement better power cables on my source, rather than my amp. As far as cost, I like to keep it in proportion to the gear I am plugging into it (read: less). Just my .02

 

[spraggih]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpelg Going forward, I plan to implement better power cables on my source, rather than my amp. As far as cost, I like to keep it in proportion to the gear I am plugging into it (read: less). Just my .02

This makes me think. I am hearing a little noise when the amp is turned all the way up with no music playing-- it is coming from my source. I know because once I disconnect the source the noise goes away. It probably does not affect the music because there is no noise at normal listening levels. With the RPX-33 the highest volume is 1/4 up. But I see if I put a better cord or power on the source.

In my home with the new electrical in the basement there is no noise or issues at all. Upstairs (20 years old electric) is the problem. (I know you asked the others about their electricity but your post jumped out at me and made me think). Thanks!

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you for your insight and your through understanding of EE and material science. Some of us who have gone through the EE curriculum know when to keep our mouth shut because we don't know everything that goes into a power cord. Always remember all your equations are just approximation, its not the real world; things in the real world may behave differently from what the equation tells you, atleast when it comes to secondary, tertiary effects For example, I can hear the difference in power cable, I can find no equation to govern such behavior, so I keep my mouth shut

Well I know of some others that have gone as well, and even have some major degrees in that field (not my case at all BTW, my degree is in another field, not EE) that also do keep the mouth shut as well, but for a different reason, just because to argue, with the ones who refuse to accept the reality, will not make any benefit to anybody. But they do not beleive neither in those commonly perceived differences...simpy as that...

This argument will get as usual out of hand, so I will stop here, to avoid any further flames, but do not forget that in order to be objective, to state that you hear something is not enough, you say you hear them, others say they do not, so who is right? Nobody can prove the other wrong...

BTW to get a decent power cord done, just follow this procedure BTW, there is really nothing major behind a power cord design at all...IMO...and in others as well....

 

[leonid05]

I`m one of those who don`t "hear" power cords, been there, done that.
Hence I`m with Sovkiller on this one.

Using my RPX-33 with it`s stock cable for several months now, as a pre-amp and HA, and missing nothing.

But of course it`s up to everybody to make their own experiences (hopefully not to expensive ones), and I certainly won`t argue about it.

Cheers to everybody, and as long as you own a RPX-33, enjoy this great amp, with what cable ever!

 

[WindowsX]

From what I've tried so far, any 500$ or higher home amps get the same rate benefit from power cord. Even 600$ amp can sound better than 1600$ amp with stock cord if 600$ amp have good power cord.

I tested Stello HP100 with VD Power One from wattgate gold outlet and compare to m902 using stock cord from normal outlet. HP100 drives k701 better than m902.

 

[Knockturne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindowsX /img/forum/go_quote.gif From what I've tried so far, any 500$ or higher home amps get the same rate benefit from power cord. Even 600$ amp can sound better than 1600$ amp with stock cord if 600$ amp have good power cord. I tested Stello HP100 with VD Power One from wattgate gold outlet and compare to m902 using stock cord from normal outlet. HP100 drives k701 better than m902.

And did you try comparing your HP100 with stock cord to your M902 with "VD Power One from wattgate gold outlet"??? I'm guessing the Stello would still drive the K701 better.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WindowsX /img/forum/go_quote.gif From what I've tried so far, any 500$ or higher home amps get the same rate benefit from power cord. Even 600$ amp can sound better than 1600$ amp with stock cord if 600$ amp have good power cord. I tested Stello HP100 with VD Power One from wattgate gold outlet and compare to m902 using stock cord from normal outlet. HP100 drives k701 better than m902.

Not sure where the logic is here, first rating amps by price...

...IIRC the price is not an indication of the quality of the amp, we have overpriced amps, and real bang for the bucks amps, that will perform similarly, and with different price points: IMO the engineering, for example, inside the PPA, or the META, is far superior to any engineering in any tube amp design-wise, and a PPA cost a few hundreds bucks, while a tube amp could cost you at least the double or in some cases a few thousands, second comparing two different amps, even while driving the same heapdhone, and concluding that the power cord made the difference...

Regardless of the power cord you use, the result has to do more with the synergy between amp and the headphone, impedance load, design, etc...and that has nothing to do with the power cord...some $300.00 amps drive some heapdhones better than a $3000 amps with any power cord, that is one of the difference between heapdhone amps and speaker amps, the diffenrent loads makes differnt synergies, and offer different scenarios, just an example the RA-1, a $350.00 amp drive the Grados so beautifully than "some multithousand" dollar amps will have a really hard time competing...

 

[Vangelis]

I've always been an advocate of investing into or upgrading the source first. I have two CD players, an Ayre CD5xe and a Cambridge 840. Now the 840 is a stellar bargain at less then 25% of the cost of the Ayre, none the less there is a larger improvement from swapping power cords than these two CD players on my Rudistor. The source is very important, but so is addressing your AC power issues. I see Audiogoners that have great amplifiers and phones but have terrible front ends. Tons of audio enthusiasts think they can get away with a weak source and somehow the down stream components will magically put the lost musical bits back into the system. Like wise, many Audiogoners off hand dismiss the AC delivery as a non issue. In my 40yrs plus of messing with audio products I've found that just because an audio component’s power supply is well engineered and highly regulated doesn’t mean that it won't get added benefit from addressing the system’s power delivery. Not long ago, audio engineers hadn’t considered that turntables that speced at 33rpm would benefit with further out board regulation. Many audiophiles feel that the audio source is the beginning of your system while others make a pretty good argument that your AC power is where it all begins. Regardless of what the real source is, it’s all about balance. You can own Canons best camera body, yet put a junk or dirty lense in front of it and watch what happens.

 

[WindowsX]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knockturne /img/forum/go_quote.gif And did you try comparing your HP100 with stock cord to your M902 with "VD Power One from wattgate gold outlet"??? I'm guessing the Stello would still drive the K701 better.

No way for hp100 stock cord being better than m902 stock cord. I had hp100 before and I bought m902 because I found m902 is next level so bare stello couldn't even be comparable to grace m902. But benefit from ac cords can drive hp100 with k701 better than stock cord from m902 in terms of hi-fi. I'm not cable mania but I couldn't stand commenting cables like 1/10 priority of devices.

Anyway, I think it's useless speaking to non-believer of cables because they will never change their minds until they experience it. hp100 and m902 have similar sound signature and m902 is like step up hp100...And it's not my business to convince someone in here because that won't make my system sound any better.

 

[fkclo]

Back to the topic on Rudistor amps.

I am using a Violet Z1 and my RPX-100 sounds great. I switch my well burned in RAL Precept II (the Precept II will take a very long time to settle) and the sound open up further. The extension at both ends of the spectrum goes further, and smoother.

I am a believe of cables, but not the type who are willing to out-cost their cables compared to other components. I restrict myself to spend less than US$1,000 on each meter power cord. So far, most of them cost less than U$500.

I also agree source is important - and that includes power supply to the source. Because of the lower current demand, a good power cord is a small but important investment to a good source.

And yes, new buildings with better mains ( how they spread the load on the 3 phases, the size of the mains cable entering your buidling...) will make things easier on Audio.

In Hong Kong, I spoke to some utility guys and was told the grid power is well regulated (both voltage and frequency control) and because there are relative small inductive loads (like large factoriers, and production sites) the city mains are pretty good. But I still believe some minimum conditioning is desirable, especially on Source, DAC.

F. Lo

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangelis /img/forum/go_quote.gif "...Like wise, many Audiogoners off hand dismiss the AC delivery as a non issue. In my 40yrs plus of messing with audio products I've found that just because an audio component’s power supply is well engineered and highly regulated doesn’t mean that it won't get added benefit from addressing the system’s power delivery..."

Addressing power issues is very very important, I'm 100% with you, if you have them, but first not everybody has them...and the most important, and the second, since when changing the power cord alone will address any issue on the power? I do not get what a power cord can do on the power to improve it, honestly...

 

[spraggih]

Just one clarifying question for me (the OP):

For those who believe in power cords, in your opinion...

A. Does it make audio deeper, more resolution, etc
B. Does a power cord address power issues
C. Both A and B.

If A only how do you find out if you have power issues? Is there a simple scientific or qualitative test?

 

[chesebert]

can we not use terms like 'believe in' or 'not believe in' as if the difference is all faith based; Using the same analogy would yield statement like 'do you believe lemon tastes sour' or ' do you believe rotten egg smells bad'.

The truth of the matter is that person x experience something which person y did not. That's not the same as person x believed he experienced something and person y believed person x did not experience them.

Experience as far as human senses are concerned is not a believe but a fact.

For y to say that the x did not experience something when in fact the x did is the same as if x said lemon tastes sour, and y, although never tasted lemon, said x merely believed lemon tastes sour.

You see this type of reasoning (believer/nonbeliever) is just absurd when you make some analogies.