[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sant430 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I found this was spot-on for me as well. The first listen on high gain was definitely on the forward side. However, I found myself going back to the mid gain and enjoying that fully. I read somewhere on HeadFi about someone switching between the input and dac setting for comparison and gave it a try myself. Once I got MediaMonkey ready to play in sync with my iMod (4th Gen), I listened while alternating between the dac and the imod. Connected to the the Predator, the iMod rocks; sounding very detailed and aggressive. This time with the Predator's DAC being used alongside the iMod, I found that the DAC offers a significant expansion in soundstage*. The instruments sounded almost stacked with the iMod when compared to the soundstage I heard with the DAC. I do want to be clear that both the iMod AND the DAC sound wicked; so good that I'm looking for a way to find some $$$$ to send my 5.5gen to Vinnie. I just really enjoy the soundstage of the dac and the detail. I found that I also have a negative!! Wavoman, I don't know if you've posted pics of your red/black Predator, but I'd love to see the opposite of me! http://www.head-fi.org/forums/4408585-post514.html So I know that I'm still very early in my burn-in time. I received my Pred right before Independence Day, but it's only on for a few hours daily, if that. Right now, I'm very very very happy with this investment. They synergize great with my ue11s. This combo makes any of my DAPs sing. The coolest thing about this hobby is you get to hear music for the first time.......again. Thanks guys..... [size=xx-small]*this is one of the times I experienced an aural revelation, being able to finally hear and understand other people's sonic description - I get more of these now. To me, having my tin ears being able to REALLY hear AND listen is really exciting[/size]

With the iMod and a Jumbo Cryo Silver X mini-iMod-LOD the Predator DAC soundstage can sound better than iMod sometimes, but with the Portable Vcap dock the iMod will pass up the Predator DAC easily.

As a matter of fact, today my iMod 5.5G via Portable Vcap Dock > mmwwhats silver RCA interconnects > Woo WA6 maxed with Sophia Princess rectifier > HD600 with stock cable sounded better than Blutarsky's Mac mini > Stello DA100 optical > Joe Grado Signature Ultra Wide Bandwidth IC > Melos SHA Gold > HD600 with APS V3 cable! Switching to his Zana Deux with Pendles made silver interconnects didn't change the results.

So yes, you need the 5.5G iMod with vCap dock! And, feed that into the Predator and you will reach nirvana.

 

[the_eleven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif With the iMod and a Jumbo Cryo Silver X mini-iMod-LOD the Predator DAC soundstage can sound better than iMod sometimes, but with the Portable Vcap dock the iMod will pass up the Predator DAC easily.

OK, pardon me, as I am thick in the head, but what are you saying here?

If I understand correctly, the iMod LOD output is still going through the iPod DAC, so how does the Predator DAC come into play at all?

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_eleven /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, pardon me, as I am thick in the head, but what are you saying here? If I understand correctly, the iMod LOD output is still going through the iPod DAC, so how does the Predator DAC come into play at all?

I'm curious about these last few posts, too.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_eleven /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK, pardon me, as I am thick in the head, but what are you saying here? If I understand correctly, the iMod LOD output is still going through the iPod DAC, so how does the Predator DAC come into play at all?

My statement was in reference to sant430 when he/she posted the following:

Quote:

Originally Posted by sant430 I found this was spot-on for me as well. The first listen on high gain was definitely on the forward side. However, I found myself going back to the mid gain and enjoying that fully. I read somewhere on HeadFi about someone switching between the input and dac setting for comparison and gave it a try myself. Once I got MediaMonkey ready to play in sync with my iMod (4th Gen), I listened while alternating between the dac and the imod. Connected to the the Predator, the iMod rocks; sounding very detailed and aggressive. This time with the Predator's DAC being used alongside the iMod, I found that the DAC offers a significant expansion in soundstage*. The instruments sounded almost stacked with the iMod when compared to the soundstage I heard with the DAC. I do want to be clear that both the iMod AND the DAC sound wicked; so good that I'm looking for a way to find some $$$$ to send my 5.5gen to Vinnie. I just really enjoy the soundstage of the dac and the detail.

I was addressing sant430's statement about the Predator DAC sound quality being better than the iMod, by adding my findings that in some cases it is better but only if you are not using Vcap dock or some other big cap dock.

I was agreeing that If I put the same music on my Macbook and listen through the predator DAC, and then I compare it to the iMod with the same music, played with a "standard iMod cable" into the Predator = the Predator DAC can sometimes sound better than the iMod.

My point was that in switching to an ALO portable Vcap dock to feed the iMod into the Predator, then the iMod will almost always sound better than the Predator DAC (and better than just about all the other USB DAC out there too). I can honestly say that the sound quality of the iMod is tremendously increased by changing from a standard iMod cable (like sant430 was using) to a Vcap dock (or other ALO big cap dock like Auri, mundorf, Jensen).

I was not talking about feeding the iMod through the Predator DAC.

 

[sant430]

This place is sooooo bad.......

Damn it, right when I think I'm out, they pull me back in!!!

*snort snort*

 

[Paddy855]

Quote:

My point was that in switching to an ALO portable Vcap dock to feed the iMod into the Predator, then the iMod will almost always sound better than the Predator DAC (and better than just about all the other USB DAC out there too).

HeadphoneAddict, seeing that you own both the Predator and the Pico I am really curious to know if you would rate the Pico DAC feeding the Predator as a "pre-amp" (low gain, maxed out volume) higher or lower than iMod+Alo Vcap feeding the Predator?

 

[justin w.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddy855 /img/forum/go_quote.gif HeadphoneAddict, seeing that you own both the Predator and the Pico I am really curious to know if you would rate the Pico DAC feeding the Predator as a "pre-amp" (low gain, maxed out volume) higher or lower than iMod+Alo Vcap feeding the Predator?

If anyone were to do such a thing....it would have to be the other way around. Max the volume on the amp, adjust the source (Pico's) volume control.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddy855 /img/forum/go_quote.gif HeadphoneAddict, seeing that you own both the Predator and the Pico I am really curious to know if you would rate the Pico DAC feeding the Predator as a "pre-amp" (low gain, maxed out volume) higher or lower than iMod+Alo Vcap feeding the Predator?

In terms of sheer detail, ambience, soundstage and performance; I would say the iMod with Vcap or Jensen copper foil cap dock is on (or close to) the same level of performance as the USB DAC in the Pico, Apogee mini-dac and Stello DA100. Feeding any of those into the Predator will be slightly better than using the Predator's USB DAC, but feeding those sources into a full size desktop amp will be even more impressive. I use the Apogee and Pico as a pre-amp, and set the amp to max and control changes in volume with the Preamp. To me it's silly to feed the Pico into the Predator, and I'll pick one or the other depending on the music or headphones I'm using.

 

[jamato8]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif In terms of sheer detail, ambience, soundstage and performance; I would say the iMod with Vcap or Jensen copper foil cap dock is on (or close to) the same level of performance as the USB DAC in the Pico, Apogee mini-dac and Stello DA100. Feeding any of those into the Predator will be slightly better than using the Predator's USB DAC, but feeding those sources into a full size desktop amp will be even more impressive. I use the Apogee and Pico as a pre-amp, and set the amp to max and control changes in volume with the Preamp. To me it's silly to feed the Pico into the Predator, and I'll pick one or the other depending on the music or headphones I'm using.

Silly? I think you should get another Pico or Predator, and use the single amp as a pre and the other two as mono amps! Geez get wit the program man. You got a portable pre mono amp setup and only, oh, 1500 dollars invested plus the cabling. :^)

I have done this. I have wiring I made up so I can run either two amps as mono amps or a pre to two amps. Sounds very good but not too practical.

 

[Paddy855]

Quote:

If anyone were to do such a thing....it would have to be the other way around. Max the volume on the amp, adjust the source (Pico's) volume control.

Thanks for the clarification, Justin. I obviously had a completely false idea of how the pico as a pre-amp or any pre-amp really works.

Quote:

To me it's silly to feed the Pico into the Predator, and I'll pick one or the other depending on the music or headphones I'm using.

I guess you're right since there's not really a good reason to "improve" the Predator amp with the Pico DAC. But I definitely see that the Pico DAC would shine even more with big desktop amps than with the built-in Pico amp.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paddy855 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess you're right since there's not really a good reason to "improve" the Predator amp with the Pico DAC. But I definitely see that the Pico DAC would shine even more with big desktop amps than with the built-in Pico amp.

Yeah, I think Justin did a good job designing the Pico in such a way that it can drive other amps well, eliminating the need for a line out.

 

[the_eleven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif My point was that in switching to an ALO portable Vcap dock to feed the iMod into the Predator, then the iMod will almost always sound better than the Predator DAC (and better than just about all the other USB DAC out there too). I can honestly say that the sound quality of the iMod is tremendously increased by changing from a standard iMod cable (like sant430 was using) to a Vcap dock (or other ALO big cap dock like Auri, mundorf, Jensen).

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

Good to know that the Wolfson DAC in the iPod gives high quality sound, in the right conditions.

 

[aluren]

HeadphoneAddict:

have you tried an imod dock vs. a regular dock connecting to the vcap? i heard that you can't use the imod dock with vcap and i was wondering why that is. does it make the sq worse?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aluren /img/forum/go_quote.gif HeadphoneAddict: have you tried an imod dock vs. a regular dock connecting to the vcap? i heard that you can't use the imod dock with vcap and i was wondering why that is. does it make the sq worse?

The caps are to block the DC offset from the DAC before the amp on the line out dock. Stock, the cheap caps inside the iPod held the sound back. The higher the quality of the caps is, the more transparent and spacious the sound will be. The sound will be only as good as the weakest link in the audio-chain.

So if you use the small blackgates in the LOD to feed the vcap dock you have already inserted your weak link before it enters the vcap dock, "tainted the sound" if that is the right term for it. Don't get me wrong, the Blackgates in the LOD are MUCH better than the stock caps inside the iPod were, but the Vcaps or Jensen Copper Foil caps, or Auricaps or Mundorf are all much better than the small blackgates.

The caps don't add to the sound, you use better caps so as to "remove less" from the sound.

 

[aluren]

i see... i always thought the more caps the better. thanks for the info.