Rogue Audio RH-5 Impression Thread
May 5, 2019 at 11:38 AM Post #46 of 718
What tubes did you finally settle on? In what way were the Gold Lion ECC82 / B749's colored? Did you try the Mullards?

Here's my 12AU7 inventory; (All acquired from Upscale)

2 Mullard M8136/CV4003

2 Amperex Medical 12AU7

2 Brimar CV4003

2 Radiotechnique 12AU7WAH

2 Gold Lion ECC82/B749

2 Cifte 12AU7

(Note: can also be use in Valhalla 2 with adapters)


I typically rotate tubes a couple times a year so with tubes its never a once and done for me. I like variety and to revisit equipment, including tubes. Over time performance can change, new equipment may be added / deleted, and I know from experience, how I feel about something today may change over the course, of say, a year.

To answer your question; with respect to the Gold Lions; a forward midrange is a coloration, the midrange pushed forward, too vivid, out of balance with the rest of the frequency range (to my way of hearing it with my musical genre of choice and the equipment I listen with, not necessarily the same for you with your equipment). But if you like an bold midrange with your preferred musical genre the Gold Lion might be the right tube for you. Keep in mind these differences are never day/night, unless the tube is defective or not performing to spec and always small, not order of magnitude stuff.

It's not just about the tube. It's also about the circuit it's used in and, even more importantly, to my way of hearing it, the transducer it's used with. I like the Cifte with my 1266 better than with my Utopia, the 1266 Phi doesn't mind the touch of brightness I hear with my Utopia and the Cifte. I prefer the Mullard's (or Brimar's) with my Utopia with their softer highs than the Cifte's. And on and on. And as a tube ages it's sound might alter. And a year down the road I may feel differently about the sound than today. How many times have you seen mag / web-zine reviewers re-visit a component after a 12 month period of living with it? Time changes everything.

For me the key is how the tube matches up with my different headphones. And now that I'm working on a return to 2 speaker stereo after 15 years of no in-room speakers, the matching of the tube sound with the speakers sound signature and my room acoustics may very well change my thoughts on the different sounds of these 12AU7's, and what I prefer with my headphones may not be the same with whatever speakers I choose, or maybe it will stay the same. I won't know for sure until I start rolling. The integrated amp I've settled on uses 12AU7's on the front end and while I haven't decided on what speaker to go with its possible that tube preferences with my HP's may not align the same way with whatever speakers I buy.

It would be nice if we could select a tube and be one and done. Unfortunately we don't all hear the same, (and not everybody wants to listen that hard to determine if they hear these very small differences). And there are so many other variables in the sound of the equipment chain and the transducers we use them with, the music we listen to most, and our expectations and bias's, You've just got to experiment a little for yourself after investigating others' impressions. And, if I had just one amp and one headphone it might be easier, but that's not in the nature of how I enjoy and engage with this hobby.

Think about what your rig sounds like to you and what you want more of less of. Check out the descriptions of different sound traits of 12AU7's on various sites like Brent Jesse, Lowtechelec, Viva Tubes, etc. just to name a few off the top of my head). You can also e-mail some tube dealers and get their thoughts on a tube with the equipment your going to use it with. Some may just tell you the most expensive are the best - again there's a learning curve here, not just about tube sounds but your dealer interaction as well. I had a dealer talk me out of the most expensive available of a different tube type he carried saying it might not be to my liking given what I had told him about my tastes in sound. And like has been said often, you can't make an omelet without cracking a few eggs. You have to buy and try.

There is nothing wrong with the sound of the Gold Lion's or the JJ's, it's all about personal preferences. I listen mostly to large scale classical, usually recorded with a dozen mics hung a few feet over the orchestra with more than needed spotlighting (in my opinion) and I hear a lot of the initial, immediate, sound. My preferred seating in the concert hall is front row, first balcony, near center where the mix of direct and reflected and co-mingled sound is very different. If you accept that the mics are your ears in a recording, then the general perspective in most multi-mic'd classical recordings (with or without the addition of ambience) is; I'm suspend over the orchestra looking down. Piano keyboards stretched from 25 to 35 feet from the first violins all the way across to the cellos is always an epic fail to my ears. Nothing like I experience in the concert hall as to image size, positioning and sound stage perspective. Even from the orchestra pit its not the same perspective on the orchestra as being suspended over head. At the Kimmel in Philadelphia they have seating above and behind the orchestra, having the the violins right and cellos left completely screwed with my head, I could not un-do 5 decades of going live and listening from in front of the orchestra. I can't tell you the number of times I've visited high-end audio stores who had the left and right channels reversed and noticed nothing wrong when I gave them some orchestral music to play, LOL! I suspect classical was not their chosen genre.

I try and find a happy medium for myself with respect to top to bottom sound, imaging, etc, when working with my rigs. Something that enhances the strengths and mitigates the short comings with the music I listen to most, the equipment I have, and what I think sounds best. Other genres may have different recording issues to deal with, maybe in smaller acoustic settings, studios, live location recording, etc., that present other challenges to the engineers.
 
May 5, 2019 at 2:17 PM Post #48 of 718
To answer your question; with respect to the Gold Lions; a forward midrange is a coloration, the midrange pushed forward, too vivid, out of balance with the rest of the frequency range (to my way of hearing it with my musical genre of choice and the equipment I listen with, not necessarily the same for you with your equipment).

And now that I'm working on a return to 2 speaker stereo after 15 years of no in-room speakers, the matching of the tube sound with the speakers sound signature and my room acoustics may very well change my thoughts on the different sounds of these 12AU7's, and what I prefer with my headphones may not be the same with whatever speakers I choose, or maybe it will stay the same. I won't know for sure until I start rolling. The integrated amp I've settled on uses 12AU7's on the front end and while I haven't decided on what speaker to go with its possible that tube preferences with my HP's may not align the same way with whatever speakers I buy.
That is exactly how the Gold Lion Re-Issue sounded to me. It did the trick in my two channel system but didn't pair well with the Meze Empyreans. The JJ's that came with the RA RH5 sounded better with the Emp's and I ultimately put the JJ's back in. I also have the Valhalla 1 and would like to know what adapter you are referring to? I will just put the Gold Lions in that amp so it doesn't feel like a complete waste.

I also got the Gold Lions from Upscale and saw you made mention of the Mullard CV4003. I see the Mullard new production at Upscale and don't believe those are the ones you have; are they? I have been looking at the Mullard Tubes, as the descriptions I have read seem to be what I am looking for. I am just hoping my next purchase will be more to my liking and I really appreciate your advice.
 
May 5, 2019 at 3:47 PM Post #50 of 718
That is exactly how the Gold Lion Re-Issue sounded to me. It did the trick in my two channel system but didn't pair well with the Meze Empyreans. The JJ's that came with the RA RH5 sounded better with the Emp's and I ultimately put the JJ's back in. I also have the Valhalla 1 and would like to know what adapter you are referring to? I will just put the Gold Lions in that amp so it doesn't feel like a complete waste.

I also got the Gold Lions from Upscale and saw you made mention of the Mullard CV4003. I see the Mullard new production at Upscale and don't believe those are the ones you have; are they? I have been looking at the Mullard Tubes, as the descriptions I have read seem to be what I am looking for. I am just hoping my next purchase will be more to my liking and I really appreciate your advice.

No, Mullards are NOS wrinkle glass from 1960's that I got from Upscale in Jan 2018. Cost a lot more than the current Mullard reissues.
And the Brimar's are sold out.

I don't know if the Valhalla 1 and 2 use the same driver tubes. Maybe someone in the know can chime in here, or send an E-Mail to Schiit.

tech@schiit.com

With all the multiple designations out there for the same tube its a minefield of potential trouble when hunting for adapters. At least for me, LOL!
 
May 5, 2019 at 4:37 PM Post #52 of 718
No, Mullards are NOS wrinkle glass from 1960's that I got from Upscale in Jan 2018. Cost a lot more than the current Mullard reissues.
And the Brimar's are sold out.

I don't know if the Valhalla 1 and 2 use the same driver tubes. Maybe someone in the know can chime in here, or send an E-Mail to Schiit.

tech@schiit.com

With all the multiple designations out there for the same tube its a minefield of potential trouble when hunting for adapters. At least for me, LOL!
I think I'm retiring from tube rolling. Grand Opening/Grand Closing!
https://www.audiotubes.in/product/ecc82-1244057-1244368/
Are these the Mullards you have? Are these good?
 
May 5, 2019 at 5:09 PM Post #53 of 718
Yep, that's a good price depending on how many hours on them. They come with plastic pin protectors on the bottom that completely cover the pins from view. I have SN 618084 and 618499.
Sound fine with no harshness in the highs. The pins on mine needed a good cleaning when I got them, depending on where they were stored and in conjunction with those pins protectors mine were
oxydized uniformly but some contact cleaner and alcohol took care of it. My Brimar CV4003's came with the same pin protectors and the pins also needed cleaning.
 
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May 13, 2019 at 9:25 PM Post #54 of 718
Demo’d the RH-5 today at the dealer and within 5 minutes of listening to not even warmed up, I knew I wanted it. Spent 3 hours yesterday auditioning Woo Wa22, wa6se, simaudio and Ican pro at another dealer and none of them comes close to the Rogue.

Very balanced presentation of the music where nothing stands out like the other amps above did in a particular aspect. I liked the Woo Wa22 second most but its just too soft sounding even tho’ there’s plenty of detail. Too easy to listen to imo which makes it not very engaging.

The fact that it comes with a a remote, phono stage if you order want, and can act as a very good preamp sealed the deal for me.

Auditioned it with my utopia and Hugo 2. Perfect match. Ended up getting the phono stage too. Also if anyone is in the SF Bay Area I highly recommend Music Lover’s in Berkeley. Great service for the demo I did, very knowledgeable all around great experience at their shop today.

Also picked up a custom Transparent Audio Cable for the utopia’s they had which I reallly liked vs the Nordost Heimdall I tried yesterday. Much more open, airy and detailed.
 
May 15, 2019 at 12:28 PM Post #56 of 718
Mark at Rogue says he prefers the RCA Clear Tops with his RH-5. He agreed with the general consensus that the RCA's add a little more to he highs which will likely work well with the RH-5 then. Gonna be my first set of tubes I try with these for sure. You can order directly from him...matched and tested for low microphonics. $100 for a pair which is about $40 less than from other shops. Sounds like a great price.
 
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May 15, 2019 at 5:46 PM Post #57 of 718
Mark at Rogue says he prefers the RCA Clear Tops with his RH-5. He agreed with the general consensus that the RCA's add a little more to he highs which will likely work well with the RH-5 then. Gonna be my first set of tubes I try with these for sure. You can order directly from him...matched and tested for low microphonics. $100 for a pair which is about $40 less than from other shops. Sounds like a great price.
That's what's up! Let me know what you think. I have a pair of RCA grey long plates coming on Friday for only 40 bucks matched. I'm hoping they sound dark, dusty, dingey and smell like feet. I want to tame my bright ass Kef LS-50's and my HD800S. I want Diana Krall to sound like James Earl Jones!
 
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May 15, 2019 at 6:32 PM Post #58 of 718
LOL.
 
May 15, 2019 at 9:17 PM Post #59 of 718
That's what's up! Let me know what you think. I have a pair of RCA grey long plates coming on Friday for only 40 bucks matched. I'm hoping they sound dark, dusty, dingey and smell like feet. I want to tame my bright ass Kef LS-50's and my HD800S. I want Diana Krall to sound like James Earl Jones!

<James Earl Jones voice> This is The look of love...er, I mean...CNN </end James Earl Jones voice>
 

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