[Alex May]

@robertom Thanks for the source, mate!

So who called the NTH-100 a monitoring headphone? And with... flat response? Really?

This graph is reposted from the aforementioned website.
I'm sorry but imho this Rode NTH-100 is nothing but a disaster.

 

[robertom]

@robertom Thanks for the source, mate!

So who called the NTH-100 a monitoring headphone? And with... flat response? Really?

This graph is reposted from the aforementioned website.
I'm sorry but imho this Rode NTH-100 is nothing but a disaster.

I confess that I abandoned the idea of buying/trying them (amazon) after seeing solderdude measurements, since I usually trust his measurements and subjective impressions on headphones. They are probably not bad headphones (see his conclusions) even though they are dark tilted and with not impressive distortion figures. However, having personally tried to mix on HD650 for years with bad outcomes, I can guarantee that such a dark headphone (darker than a 650, it would seem) is not suited for mixing. It could be good for tracking or for a relaxed listening.
Unless, of course, solderdude measurements are off (which I do not believe).

 

[MayaTlab]

As for bass quantity: yes, it is of course a matter of personal preferences

And to a very significant degree for some of the headphones mentioned in this thread, a question of effective coupling with the individual's anatomy .

For over-ears, Rtings measures the bass response, up to a few hundred hertz, on five real humans :
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/frequency-response-consistency
The K371's consistency across individuals is rather poor in terms of bass response : https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-5/graph#1671/7913
(Not surprising, for a start its hinge design is idiotic and lacks basic range of motion to properly conform to varied anatomies).

There's also the question of variation for the same individual depending on positional variation and head movement. You can read about my own experience here :
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...view-closed-back-headphone.19657/post-1068170

If you want to dig deeper, an article on the question of leakage from Harman : https://www.grasacoustics.com/files...mprovedMeasurementofLeakageEffects_Harman.pdf

So this is a bit of moot point debating about the K361/K371's bass response without knowing the actual response that your sample manages to deliver on your own head .

While I can't speak for someone else, I can already say that, for me, the NTH-100 holds a very significant advantage over the K371 when it comes to its capacity to deliver a consistent and repeatable FR. It's too bad that the basal FR it delivers is rather poor, but since the main use case for them for me is in situations where I'm going to use them with the Qudelix 5K, which has a ten bands PEQ, it's fine.

Unless, of course, solderdude measurements are off (which I do not believe).

There's always going to be some difference between the relative measurements you see on an ear simulator between two samples and the effective, on head relative difference between your own two samples. Difficult to quantify how significant that difference is without extensive data about sample variation and variation across individuals.

At higher frequencies, Solderdude's test rig isn't as good an approximation of the human ear as ear simulators like such from GRAS or B&K, but even the latter may not perfectly represent how two samples would differ on your own head.

For me, my own samples of the HD650 and NTH-100 behave on my own head differently, relative to each others, from Solderdude's results, but the main "gist" of the difference is similar.

 

[robertom]

So this is a bit of moot point debating about the K361/K371's bass response without knowing the actual response that your sample manages to deliver on your own head .

While I can't speak for someone else, I can already say that, for me, the NTH-100 holds a very significant advantage over the K371 when it comes to its capacity to deliver a consistent and repeatable FR. It's too bad that the basal FR it delivers is rather poor, but since the main use case for them for me is in situations where I'm going to use them with the Qudelix 5K, which has a ten bands PEQ, it's fine.

Of course... and your point about consistency in sealing and channel matching is very good too. Good to know that NTH-100 is better in this regard, since K371 is known for not having a great consistency and channel matching (L/R).
Anyway, K371 is not one of my favourite headphones, even between economic closed backs. I think is a good and cheap tool for a studio, but it is not perfect. I even prefer the new economic Drop's closed dynamic Hifiman over it, and the Shure SRH840 with brainwavz H5 pads with regard to soundstage and general presentation.

There's always going to be some difference between the relative measurements you see on an ear simulator between two samples and the effective, on head relative difference between your own two samples. Difficult to quantify how significant that difference is without extensive data about sample variation and variation across individuals.

Of course you are right, we are talking about a headphone that is just out, with very little knowlege of it, and just a couple of measurements over the internet.

At higher frequencies, Solderdude's test rig isn't as good an approximation of the human ear as ear simulators like such from GRAS or B&K, but even the latter may not perfectly represent how two samples would differ on your own head.

For me, my own samples of the HD650 and NTH-100 behave on my own head differently, relative to each others, from Solderdude's results, but the main "gist" of the difference is similar.

good to know they are actually pretty similar (and a little bit darker? right?) in your subjective evaluation ... Even with their limitations, the combination of solderdude's rig + his subjective impressions usually give me a useful and reliable hint of what's going on with an headphone.
Just to add... HD650 is still one of my favourite headphones for listening pleasure, very relaxing and with an exquisite timbre, they are just not right for mixing (in my opinion), because they tends to soften up everything.

 

[MayaTlab]

Of course... and your point about consistency in sealing and channel matching is very good too. Good to know that NTH-100 is better in this regard, since K371 is known for not having a great consistency and channel matching (L/R).

For me - and I want to emphasis that someone else, with a different anatomy than mine, may have a different experience - they are much, much more consistent in terms of positional variation / movement than the K371. The latter is basically unusable because of this problem (so its somewhat half-decent tuning without EQ is a moot point anyway as it can't consistently hit the target it aims to hit - at least the NTH-100 can be EQed to a target).

Channel matching and manufacturing is probably a good deal better as well, but the way Røde seems to vent the headphones makes for a rather baffling problem for which their solution is an unsatisfying compromise (cf. Solderdude's article). So at lower frequencies it's unlikely to ever be quite as good as what you may get from Senn's HD6... line, or some active headphones with a feedback mechanism (ex : Bose QC series, Airpods Max). But again for me it's miles better than the K371.

 

[robertom]

For me - and I want to emphasis that someone else, with a different anatomy than mine, may have a different experience - they are much, much more consistent in terms of positional variation / movement than the K371. The latter is basically unusable because of this problem (so its somewhat half-decent tuning without EQ is a moot point anyway as it can't consistently hit the target it aims to hit - at least the NTH-100 can be EQed to a target).

Channel matching and manufacturing is probably a good deal better as well, but the way Røde seems to vent the headphones makes for a rather baffling problem for which their solution is an unsatisfying compromise (cf. Solderdude's article). So at lower frequencies it's unlikely to ever be quite as good as what you may get from Senn's HD6... line, or some active headphones with a feedback mechanism (ex : Bose QC series, Airpods Max). But again for me it's miles better than the K371.

very good, thank you. And as to hi frequencies? is the roll-off real, as you perceive it?

 

[MayaTlab]

very good, thank you. And as to hi frequencies? is the roll-off real, as you perceive it?

Yes, but I think I can EQ them to deliver a treble response that I find somewhat OK. That already puts them in a fairly exclusive club (treble is where EQing headphones is the most difficult).

They also have few sharp resonances or nulls (particularly for a pair of passive, closed back HPs), so combined with the stable FR that makes them quite easy to EQ... with the help of in-ear mics (if such an option is unavailable, you'll have to rely on third party measurements, with another sample, from ear simulators, which means you're then subjected to the issue of sample variation and the translation of the ear simulator's results to your own head).

I don't recommend them without EQ (just as I wouldn't recommend 95% of headphones in existence anyway), but with a 10 bands PEQ, why not.

 

[iancraig10]

To be honest, I’m not certain that Solderdude’s graph shows exactly how the treble sounds on the head. Seeing this got me quickly switching between the two to compare directly what is going on…..

First of all, the Senn hd650 is a better headphone so I’m not putting it down.

The Rode seems a little more punchy and has a more focused bass. The Senn has a slightly more spaced out sound so the bass seems more diffuse. The Rode hits quite hard.

Not surprising given the difference in space for the ears, I guess and the fact that the Rode is closed.

The treble doesn’t ‘sound’ as rolled away as Solderdude’s graph suggests. The Senn is a tad more ‘airy (which is quite funny describing a 650 this way!) but the Rode sounds slightly ‘harder’ up top. Not so much rolled away.

I don’t think Frans uses an ear in his measurements but the differences shown don’t seem as great to me as his graph suggests. Maybe it’s to do with the scale of the graph?

I prefer spoken word on the Rode I think, so it’s really good for video. The Senn seems to have a bloom on mens voices with a mid bass hump.

It’s more open in a space sense which is maybe what that graph shows but really not as much as it looks.

So the Rode at half the price isn’t doing too badly at all. Frans suggested an HM5 as an alternative for the Rode to someone on the forum. Another one I had years back. To me, that also seemed quite closed in. I think the Rode might sound better than the hm5 actually, in spite of the FR graphs.

So to me the Rode very slightly more closed in which isn’t surprising because it’s closed. Not rolled away. The treble is ‘harder’ sounding rather than rolled away. It’s an easy listen because it doesn’t have a Beyer bite in the treble and in fact, when I wrote about it in DIY Audio, I felt that it was quite a nice closed match with the Senn 600 and 650. (I have both)

If you don’t like ‘darker’ headphones, you probably won’t like the Rode, but it really isn’t that bad a listen.

BTW, it’s not that sensitive either. Not masses louder than the hd650! Also, don’t forget the rubber plug that should close up the lead socket that isn’t being used. That plug acts as a physical impedance in order to match the bass of the two drivers. Not many people have mentioned this because I think Rode glossed over it.

Make sure that the rubber bung is in the unused socket….. it will focus the bass!

 

[BobSmith8901]

To be honest, I’m not certain that Solderdude’s graph shows exactly how the treble sounds on the head. Seeing this got me quickly switching between the two to compare directly what is going on…..

First of all, the Senn hd650 is a better headphone so I’m not putting it down.

The Rode seems a little more punchy and has a more focused bass. The Senn has a slightly more spaced out sound so the bass seems more diffuse. The Rode hits quite hard.

Not surprising given the difference in space for the ears, I guess and the fact that the Rode is closed.

The treble doesn’t ‘sound’ as rolled away as Solderdude’s graph suggests. The Senn is a tad more ‘airy (which is quite funny describing a 650 this way!) but the Rode sounds slightly ‘harder’ up top. Not so much rolled away.

I don’t think Frans uses an ear in his measurements but the differences shown don’t seem as great to me as his graph suggests. Maybe it’s to do with the scale of the graph?

I prefer spoken word on the Rode I think, so it’s really good for video. The Senn seems to have a bloom on mens voices with a mid bass hump.

It’s more open in a space sense which is maybe what that graph shows but really not as much as it looks.

So the Rode at half the price isn’t doing too badly at all. Frans suggested an HM5 as an alternative for the Rode to someone on the forum. Another one I had years back. To me, that also seemed quite closed in. I think the Rode might sound better than the hm5 actually, in spite of the FR graphs.

So to me the Rode very slightly more closed in which isn’t surprising because it’s closed. Not rolled away. The treble is ‘harder’ sounding rather than rolled away. It’s an easy listen because it doesn’t have a Beyer bite in the treble and in fact, when I wrote about it in DIY Audio, I felt that it was quite a nice closed match with the Senn 600 and 650. (I have both)

If you don’t like ‘darker’ headphones, you probably won’t like the Rode, but it really isn’t that bad a listen.

BTW, it’s not that sensitive either. Not masses louder than the hd650! Also, don’t forget the rubber plug that should close up the lead socket that isn’t being used. That plug acts as a physical impedance in order to match the bass of the two drivers. Not many people have mentioned this because I think Rode glossed over it.

Make sure that the rubber bung is in the unused socket….. it will focus the bass!

Can you comment on the cable regarding micro-phonics?

 

[iancraig10]

At first, I loved the cable because it’s soft rubber and very flexible.doesn’t get easily tangled. It is microphonic, so no dancing around while listening! To be honest, it’s not a problem for me because I don’t walk around with them on. I am going to get the shorter cable though, because I do enjoy its sound and would like to walk around and sit in the garden with them.

The Rode has a pretty good sound. I think problems arise when people coming from an hd800 or dt770 review them. In comparison, they would sound rolled off. The same has often been said about the Sennheiser and it’s ‘veil’. That may well be perceived as a lack of detail, but I find them quite punchy without being harsh which is great for long listening.

Would have liked slightly larger cups. My ears just fit.

Problem with headphones is that we struggle to describe the sound in words, let alone have different hearing I guess.

 

[BobSmith8901]

At first, I loved the cable because it’s soft rubber and very flexible.doesn’t get easily tangled. It is microphonic, so no dancing around while listening! To be honest, it’s not a problem for me because I don’t walk around with them on. I am going to get the shorter cable though, because I do enjoy its sound and would like to walk around and sit in the garden with them.

The Rode has a pretty good sound. I think problems arise when people coming from an hd800 or dt770 review them. In comparison, they would sound rolled off. The same has often been said about the Sennheiser and it’s ‘veil’. That may well be perceived as a lack of detail, but I find them quite punchy without being harsh which is great for long listening.

Would have liked slightly larger cups. My ears just fit.

Problem with headphones is that we struggle to describe the sound in words, let alone have different hearing I guess.

I have the sense that this headphone will get a lot of mod interest going forward, especially the cable situation. Someone will figure out a balanced re-cabling mod, quite possibly utilizing both of the cable entries.

I think what attracted me to these (not sure I'll actually ever own them) was their stellar build quality and attention to detail what with the locks and cool-gel and headband pad, etc. I though they almost have a kind of Dan Clark Stealth look to them and are definitely punching far above their weight price/value-wise. And I don't think I've ever seen such a volume of you tube reviews for a set of headphones in such a short amount of time. It's really phenomenal. I guess the community that these are primarily intended for were locked and loaded for reviews and they certainly produced them.

 

[Alex May]

OK, the first more or less critical review after all the unworthy hype train:

I think more and more reviews will come up pointing out sheer lack of detail first, then its mid-focus with roll off on everything else, then its usability issues for creators (just wait for it). The Beyerdynamic DT700 Pro has a lot more resolution, even the K361 has more detail from what I experienced although a lot of reviewers pointed out that DT700 and K361 are not the most resolving headphones.

IDK, I've had so many expectations. And the more I expected of it (and the more hyped reviews there were initially), the more I tend to get angry about this headphone for ruining these expectations after having experienced them personally. I absolutely agree that the sound signature is a personal thing and there will be people who will sincerely like the Rode NTH-100. Especially when $150 is just a change they get in the supermarket.

 

[Blackrao]

OK, the first more or less critical review after all the unworthy hype train:

I think more and more reviews will come up pointing out sheer lack of detail first, then its mid-focus with roll off on everything else, then its usability issues for creators (just wait for it). The Beyerdynamic DT700 Pro has a lot more resolution, even the K361 has more detail from what I experienced although a lot of reviewers pointed out that DT700 and K361 are not the most resolving headphones.

IDK, I've had so many expectations. And the more I expected of it (and the more hyped reviews there were initially), the more I tend to get angry about this headphone for ruining these expectations after having experienced them personally. I absolutely agree that the sound signature is a personal thing and there will be people who will sincerely like the Rode NTH-100. Especially when $150 is just a change they get in the supermarket.

lol i think this might be the case, the rode makes my sennheiser hd58x look like a detail monster

 

[bizkid]

After some days i'm liking the NTH-100. I didn't have headphones with rolled off treble before so these are great for blasting the volume without treble peaks murdering my ears. I have owned the HD650 a few times before but in the end was very bored by them for some reason. The NTH-100 don't bore me but also don't wow me at all. They are budget headphones with a really good build for that price range with okayish audio qualities. Wether you like their tonality will be up to the individual, i don't have any problems with it personally. If they were 149€ in Europe i would be happier. With 179€ i think the financial step is not too far to reach the DT700 Pro which is better in every way.

 

[krzysztofmalina]

There were some quality issues with K371 afaik where metal and plastic joint parts got loose on the earcups. I haven't heard anything like that about K361 though where it's all plastic. Anyways, here is a video that provides some sort of update in regards to the quality control issues:

Unfortunately, I don't know any other headphone in this price category that is tuned equally good. Maybe Beyerdynamic DT250 but it has much less bass. Still nice tuning though.

Thank You! Will give the k361 a shot. In fact I will be auditioning a few headphones soon. Thanks for all the info and excuse me for hijacking the thread guys! Cheers!