[niksh]

I have always use Black Gate HiQ 0.1uF/50V to bypass the opamp in all my mods, CD player, DAC etc with excellent result. I am also the proud owner of M3. I am using M3 not only for headphone but also to drive my fostex 206E speakers. I am a tube fan but I can live with M3. I have been listening to M3 in my bedroom system for more than a week now and didn;t miss my 300B. Its not just headphone amp, its is also a preamp and integrated amp, 3 in 1.

 

[niksh]

I have always used Black Gate HiQ 0.1uF/50V to bypass the op amp in all my mods, CD player, DAC etc with excellent result. I am also the proud owner of M3. I am using M3 not only for headphone but also to drive my fostex 206E speakers. I am a tube fan but I can live with M3. I have been listening to M3 in my bedroom system for more than a week now and didn't miss my 300B. Its not just headphone amp, its is also a preamp and integrated amp, 3 in 1.

 

[scootermafia]

The guide to builders on amb.org mention Rockhopper, MisterX, and YBM. YBM offered to build me one with power supply in one month for $650. Not sure what they charge for just amp + wall wart. Rockhopper releases them regularly to be bought with their paypal checkout every so often on the news/prebuilds section of their website. Stephen's just a regular guy that happens to be really pro at building amps - it's by no means a 9 to 5 for him so he builds them whenever he wants and there's no commission work, unless you offered him some huge sum of money, and even then - who knows. Every man has his price, but I can imagine these things are a pain in the butt to put together and he only wants to build them so often. I'm not sure if MisterX still builds them, I just know he's a head-fier/builder. Other than that, it's DIY all the way, unless someone knows someone else.

It may be a bit tricky to get your paws on an M3, but worth it.

 

[m1abrams]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandal /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks. That cleared things up. OK, suppose I want to buy a finished amp. Where do I begin to look?

I will give you a hint, the answer lies within that link I posted and you quoted a few posts up

 

[Gradofan2]

In the absense of many reviews of this amp...

... why... does one buy an M^3 vs a GLite, or KICAS amp - both of which seem to get "rave" reviews???

I understand why a "techy" would build one... but... I don't understand why a "layman" would buy one.

And... I assume... one must be a "techy" to build one - since there don't seem to be any "kits" available (just specs and sources for the parts).

 

[grawk]

The m3 is more flexible (or can be) than a glite. It's a darn good performer. The kicas is an amp not many people have heard.

 

[wolf18t]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I understand why a "techy" would build one... but... I don't understand why a "layman" would buy one.

The M3 is available from a few pro builders. RockHopper Audio, MisterX and YBM Audio. No need to be in DIY to own one.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf18t /img/forum/go_quote.gif The M3 is available from a few pro builders. RockHopper Audio, MisterX and YBM Audio. No need to be in DIY to own one.

Yeah... I know... but... I still don't understand why a "layman" would buy one, when they can buy the GLite, or KICAS amps? I've seen almost no comments on the M^3 compared to the many comments about these others.

It seems more of a "project" for "techys" than an amp for a "layman." I can understand why a "techy" would build one - apparently a great toy, for a very nominal cost. I'd build one myself, if I had a "kit" for "laymen"... but... why would I buy one, rather than buying a much better known product from Headamp (assuming you could actually get one - which you can't), or Purity Audio (also... assuming you could actually get one - which you can't)???

 

[wolf18t]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah... I know... but... I still don't understand why a "layman" would buy one, when they can buy the GLite, or KICAS amps? I've seen almost no comments on the M^3 compared to the many comments about these others. It seems more of a "project" for "techys" than an amp for a "layman." I can understand why a "techy" would build one - apparently a great toy, for a very nominal cost. I'd build one myself, if I had a "kit" for "laymen"... but... why would I buy one, rather than buying a much better known product from Headamp (assuming you could actually get one - which you can't), or Purity Audio (also... assuming you could actually get one - which you can't)???

In the case of the M3 you know that you get an excellent design, good quality parts, excellent specs and probably (I never heard the M3) something that sounds excellent.

DIY offers great value for money products, still a bit less when paying someone to build it for you. But, because the design and the parts list are public domain, you exactly know what's under the hood and you know what you pay for. This is rarely the case with commercial products.

As for sound quality we all know it's a subjective matter. It's certain if a bunch of people would had the chance to compare the M3 with the KICAS, a fraction would choose the M3 and the other fraction the KICAS. But if I had to blindly purchase between the M3 and the KICAS, without hesitation I would risk my money on the pro built M3 because you know what you buy and it will offer great value for your hard earned money.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf18t /img/forum/go_quote.gif In the case of the M3 you know that you get an excellent design, good quality parts, excellent specs and probably (I never heard the M3) something that sounds excellent. DIY offers great value for money products, still a bit less when paying someone to build it for you. But, because the design and the parts list are public domain, you exactly know what's under the hood and you know what you pay for. This is rarely the case with commercial products. As for sound quality we all know it's a subjective matter. It's certain if a bunch of people would had the chance to compare the M3 with the KICAS, a fraction would choose the M3 and the other fraction the KICAS. But if I had to blindly purchase between the M3 and the KICAS, without hesitation I would risk my money on the pro built M3 because you know what you buy and it will offer great value for your hard earned money.

That all makes sense... but... I'm really more focused on "the results," rather than the design and parts - does the sound quality exceed the GL and KICAS, and similar amps... for a similar investment... and... does it significantly exceed them???

Again... it seems to be a "no brainer" if you're a "techy" and can quite easily build one yourself... but... if you're a "layman" what is so unique about the amp, that would cause you to select it? I think the answer is clear... if you're a "techy," and you can maintain it and mod it yourself - you have no major investment in it... and don't have a lot of risk, if you can't sell it. For the "layman," however, it seems their is less risk in a "brand" name, which is more widely accepted by the market, than in a DIY product you may be stuck with.

Obviously... there would need to be a pretty significant and substantial justification to invest in a DIY amp that costs as much, or more, than a "brand" name." That's the nature of my question... what is that "significant and substantial justification" (sound quality, primarily) that is so great as to justify the greater "risk of investment" in a DIY amp.

I realize this is a difficult question for a "techy / DIYer" - because they cant' relate to the amp in the context of a "layman," who pays more for something they can't likely maintain, or modify.

It would be less of an issue... if... AMB, or whoever, provided a "kit" for a "layman," as Mapletree does. Their products have both "brand" identity, as well as, a "real kit" that any layman can assemble... not just a "techy."

That's my question... since I'm not a techy, why should I invest as much, or more, in "non-branded" product, that may be difficult to resell. There should be some real rationale that justifies that investment from a "layman's perspective (e.g. better sound quality for the same, or lesser, investment). So far... I'm not hearing / seeing that anywhere. No matter how rationale it is for a "techy" who can build it and maintain/mod it at a very nominal cost.

 

[jinp6301]

I've had the GLite and as much as I liked it with Senns, the M^3 outperformed it with both senns and grados. On a pure sound quality test, I would almost definitely put the m^3 over the GLite

and its pretty easy to resell, from what I see on the FS forums.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinp6301 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've had the GLite and as much as I liked it with Senns, the M^3 outperformed it with both senns and grados. On a pure sound quality test, I would almost definitely put the m^3 over the GLite and its pretty easy to resell, from what I see on the FS forums.

OK... that's more like it...

How does it compare to similar priced SS amps like the GL, KICAS, etc.

Does the improvement in sound quality, with both high and low impedance phones... justify the investment required of a "layman," rather than that required of a "techy?"

Does your's have the gain adjustment... or... does it drive both high and low impedance phones well with the standard gain of... what... about 8???

And... does it have a very "tube-like" warm, lush sound, or does it have the more typical SS sound (e.g. cold, harsh, analytical, etc.)???

Also... does it have noticeable noise / hiss at high levels, with, or without, a signal - or does it have a "black background???"

 

[jinp6301]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif OK... that's more like it... How does it compare to similar priced SS amps like the GL, KICAS, etc. Does the improvement in sound quality, with both high and low impedance phones... justify the investment required of a "layman," rather than that required of a "techy?"

I dont really know what that means. Why would a "techy" have different SQ goals then a "layman"? But the m^3 do a great job of handling both low and high impedence phones, more then the GLite which I only really like with Senns. It did an ok job with grados but personally, I found it a bit dry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does your's have the gain adjustment... or... does it drive both high and low impedance phones well with the standard gain of... what... about 8???

No gain adjustment, but I have full volume control. Its usually between 9 and 12 for both senns and grados. I dont really know what gain it has. I should check sometime

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif And... does it have a very "tube-like" warm, lush sound, or does it have the more typical SS sound (e.g. cold, harsh, analytical, etc.)???

Its not lush or overly warm, nor is it cold and harsh. Its somewhere between those two.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also... does it have noticeable noise / hiss at high levels, with, or without, a signal - or does it have a "black background???"

No hiss, pretty black background. I have never actually checked the hiss by unplugging and maxing out the volume but I never had any problems at normal listening values

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinp6301 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I dont really know what that means. Why would a "techy" have different SQ goals then a "layman"?

A "techy's" investment is substantially less - say, around $300 for both the M^3 and S11 PSU. The "layman's" investment is around $600 for both... without substantial upgrades. Plus... the "techy" gets a fairly substantial "return" on his appreciation of the "techy stuff" and building it. And... from all I've read... and the builders I've talked with, the S11 PSU is a requirement, really.

 

[scootermafia]

M3 is a giveaway at part cost ($300) and pretty cheap at $600. It has all the sound qualities that you demanded and due to its scale/scope is probably going to beat the GLite/Kicas which are simply small amps.