Rising cost of "audiophile" equipment and importance of bias/blind testing
Aug 31, 2016 at 7:32 AM Post #1,261 of 1,376
   
Something I've noticed (to my surprise) in the HD 600 thread is that folks seem to largely accept the limitations of the headphone, rather than make outlandish suggestions like "Use <amp x> and that'll cure the bass extension problem; loads of extra sub bass with this pairing" or "I don't hear any bass distortion at all, but that's probably because I use <component x>." This could just be because it's been around for so long that everybody has finally got to the point where they can't convince themselves that these kinds of suggestions work anymore, or it could perhaps be because people are more readily accepting of the idea that headphones like the HD 6x0 have flaws because it helps them justify the expense of current flagships. Either way, most of the thread interaction I've had in the impressions threads I frequent has been pretty laid back. I hear every day about impression thread implosions, so I don't deny they happen. I just seem to have found a curious island away from them.

 
I suspect there's something in that. The HD6x0 are surprisingly good value for what you get- but have their limitations and quirks, and nearly everyone is comfortable with that. I don't think people invest as much of their ego in them, so they don't get as defensive as they do when someone questions the perfection of a piece of willy-size-fi that they secretly have doubts about.
 
Also, it seems like the 6x0 are enough of a phenomenon that people are happy to have a pair by default, alongside whatever else it is that they do argue about. The usual cycle of one-upmanship doesn't really seem to apply- if someone butted into a thread about HD6x0 and say "yeah well, my Focal Utopia are much better", they'd just look a bit insecure and daft.
 
Aug 31, 2016 at 7:49 AM Post #1,262 of 1,376
It seems to depend on the people and the gear involved. I've mentioned my issues with the HD 600 numerous times in its thread, while otherwise communicating my overall satisfaction with it, and nobody has ever jumped down my throat. Same for the DT880 (I have quite a posting history in that thread) and others in my collection. Since I've never owned an uber flagship, I imagine it's different in those kinds of threads. People probably have more personally invested in such products being seen as great because it requires a greater financial investment in order to own such a product, and some of the people who bought one of these probably had to sacrifice a fair amount in order to afford it. Accordingly, they would be less tolerant of somebody who points out the flaws or otherwise rips into such a product.

Something I've noticed (to my surprise) in the HD 600 thread is that folks seem to largely accept the limitations of the headphone, rather than make outlandish suggestions like "Use and that'll cure the bass extension problem; loads of extra sub bass with this pairing" or "I don't hear any bass distortion at all, but that's probably because I use ." This could just be because it's been around for so long that everybody has finally got to the point where they can't convince themselves that these kinds of suggestions work anymore, or it could perhaps be because people are more readily accepting of the idea that headphones like the HD 6x0 have flaws because it helps them justify the expense of current flagships. Either way, most of the thread interaction I've had in the impressions threads I frequent has been pretty laid back. I hear every day about impression thread implosions, so I don't deny they happen. I just seem to have found a curious island away from them.


Interesting insights. Thanks for sharing them!

o(^_^)o
 
Aug 31, 2016 at 9:53 AM Post #1,263 of 1,376
   
It seems to depend on the people and the gear involved. I've mentioned my issues with the HD 600 numerous times in its thread, while otherwise communicating my overall satisfaction with it, and nobody has ever jumped down my throat. Same for the DT880 (I have quite a posting history in that thread) and others in my collection. Since I've never owned an uber flagship, I imagine it's different in those kinds of threads. People probably have more personally invested in such products being seen as great because it requires a greater financial investment in order to own such a product, and some of the people who bought one of these probably had to sacrifice a fair amount in order to afford it. Accordingly, they would be less tolerant of somebody who points out the flaws or otherwise rips into such a product.
 
Something I've noticed (to my surprise) in the HD 600 thread is that folks seem to largely accept the limitations of the headphone, rather than make outlandish suggestions like "Use <amp x> and that'll cure the bass extension problem; loads of extra sub bass with this pairing" or "I don't hear any bass distortion at all, but that's probably because I use <component x>." This could just be because it's been around for so long that everybody has finally got to the point where they can't convince themselves that these kinds of suggestions work anymore, or it could perhaps be because people are more readily accepting of the idea that headphones like the HD 6x0 have flaws because it helps them justify the expense of current flagships. Either way, most of the thread interaction I've had in the impressions threads I frequent has been pretty laid back. I hear every day about impression thread implosions, so I don't deny they happen. I just seem to have found a curious island away from them.


 As a HD600 owner I see this in an other way. People don't defend the HD600 because they don't have to. The HD600 is perfection so people just let the headphones to do the talking.
wink.gif

 
Sep 5, 2016 at 9:34 AM Post #1,265 of 1,376
Hmmm...

It's been awfully quiet recently...

Stole the HD600 from one of my friends for an hour. I don't listen to music that gets really quiet, so I really can't justify the need for an amp. People often say the HD600 is one of those headphones that "really scale with the quality of the source one uses," whatever that means. I still can't see much improvement over my iPhone. My amp...simply makes it louder, as it should.

Then again, people often say the AKG K7## series needs such specific amps that requires XYZ synergy. I how many decades it will take for people to finally admit like the HD600 that they...the headphones are what they are, and people just don't like the sound that the AKGs are intended to make by default?

Or maybe I'm just crazy (broke) so I choose not to buy a set of dac/amps that cost just as much or more than the headphones themselves just to get the most out of my headphones.
 
Sep 5, 2016 at 9:50 AM Post #1,266 of 1,376
Stole the HD600 from one of my friends for an hour. I don't listen to music that gets really quite, so I really can't justify the need for an amp.

 
It's interesting to regularly listen to stuff at both ends of the spectrum. Yesterday I compared where I put my pot for listening to my lowest-level classical stuff versus square-wave power metal, and the difference unloaded was about 42dB or about 7 bits. This jives with being able to truncate some of my loud stuff to 8-bits and not notice any difference, since my best classical stuff tends to be about 14-15 bits without dither/shaping.
 
Nov 4, 2016 at 3:29 AM Post #1,269 of 1,376
  I am probably going to get in trouble with the moderator for this post, but to me the @HotIce response is a classic example of the gut level need of many self-proclaimed "objectivists" to impose censorship on all rational discussion. He completely missed the point of my post which was to simply demonstrate crazy audio ideas had been around for a long time - NOT to praise Stereophile. But because I simply mentioned Stereophile I was told to "keep in mind..." 
 
I am so sick of seeing "political correctness" ravage our great universities and threaten to destroy the basic tenants of a classic liberal education which is to promote the open exchange and challenge of ideas and beliefs. And now it even extends to a thread like this. The intellectual elites know what is best for everyone and exhibit a visceral need to protect us slobs from ourselves.

 
 
Maybe you needed to post a "trigger warning" before typing the name of that magazine. It seems as a society our attention spans have become so short that we can only digest keywords and can't anymore be bothered to comprehend what is being said. One's brain shall short circuit upon the utterance of a word such that any other words around that word have no meaning.
 
Dec 5, 2016 at 5:03 PM Post #1,270 of 1,376
Hello folks, I have only read part of the thread so far but I thought I would add my two pence worth! I can definitely tell the difference between different types of headphones, uhhh! Just about anyone can! Not what I mean, one day I can love the sound of a "setup" but the next day I find I don't really like what I hear, some of it must be dependent on what occurs during the day, maybe too much time driving, or maybe not enough, I don't know but the difference is there, or is it? What I find much harder to ascertain is the difference between "hardware", DAP's DAC's and such things, headphones seem to be easy but source gear I find different. As an example, I bought a "Little Bear" valve powered headphone amplifier, it pops and crackles through quiet passages but get the music going and it is a different kettle of fish, I also have an OPPO HA-2 which I thought was wonderful but then one evening I was using my Ibasso DX50 with the Fiio E17 as the DAC and amplifier into the same headphones, only to find the sound much more enjoyable. My opinion is that you need to listen properly and buy what you enjoy rather than buy by specs.
 
Dec 5, 2016 at 10:42 PM Post #1,271 of 1,376
Hello folks, I have only read part of the thread so far but I thought I would add my two pence worth! I can definitely tell the difference between different types of headphones, uhhh! Just about anyone can! Not what I mean, one day I can love the sound of a "setup" but the next day I find I don't really like what I hear, some of it must be dependent on what occurs during the day, maybe too much time driving, or maybe not enough, I don't know but the difference is there, or is it? What I find much harder to ascertain is the difference between "hardware", DAP's DAC's and such things, headphones seem to be easy but source gear I find different. As an example, I bought a "Little Bear" valve powered headphone amplifier, it pops and crackles through quiet passages but get the music going and it is a different kettle of fish, I also have an OPPO HA-2 which I thought was wonderful but then one evening I was using my Ibasso DX50 with the Fiio E17 as the DAC and amplifier into the same headphones, only to find the sound much more enjoyable. My opinion is that you need to listen properly and buy what you enjoy rather than buy by specs.


Of course! ^_^

Everyone's preferences are different. A large issue I'm frustrated with is that people impose their preferences onto others. That's when (proper) specs come in handy. They should tell you how something will work and let you be the judge, rather than listen to a random person on the internet, who could potentially be lying straight on your face.

Unfortunately, no such specs exist that works perfectly for all people, and companies try so hard to hide anything useful so the only way to know if a product sucks or not is to pay for it. :frowning2:
 
May 9, 2017 at 2:19 PM Post #1,272 of 1,376
People seem to be waking up to the rapid increase in flagship pricing.. I got a little sick to my stomach reading about Hifimans $6,000 headphone release upcoming. (Not to mention their marketing ploy to 1-up the Orpheus in the Shangri-La.) I was very pleased however to read all the negative feedback a lot of the commenters were able to give to Fang himself through the comments. I think people are extra fed up with Hifiman with how they came out with their version 2s so quickly and it seems like they don't even have enough time to properly do their r&d before coming out with another high priced flagship. (Part of why a lot of their headphones measure all over the place)

I'm not a hifiman hater by the way, I LOVE the sound of the HEK but I am glad to see consumers being more vocal about their dislike of the industry pricing these days. $6k really? The HEKv2 feels like it just came out.
 
Last edited:
May 9, 2017 at 8:32 PM Post #1,273 of 1,376
Buy vintage and used good gear of the past.... First eliminate all vibrations, treat your room, and last but not least , eliminate EMI.... I have experiment wit that and gest what? My mid level gear sound almost TOTL... Diminushing return law, and natural limits of hearing...
 
May 10, 2017 at 12:41 AM Post #1,274 of 1,376
Buy vintage and used good gear of the past.... First eliminate all vibrations, treat your room, and last but not least , eliminate EMI.... I have experiment wit that and gest what? My mid level gear sound almost TOTL... Diminushing return law, and natural limits of hearing...

Off topic- But always wondered what your avatar was. It looks like a nightmare inducing clown. LOL

I do think vintage gear is probably the most cost effective way to go. You can buy amazing gear, broken in and proved to withstand the tests of time for dirt cheap in some cases and older audio equipment just sounds... natural. All this new tech seems to have lost the magic. I am partial to old Mcintosh stuff.
 
May 10, 2017 at 2:25 AM Post #1,275 of 1,376

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top