[Ancipital]

  Already been there. My dear departed Bugsy thought all my cables were carrots 

 
I knew one that ate the internet, who rejoiced in the name "Bunny".

 

[NLNH]

  obviously that is wrong. and those helping the hype will go to audio hell where little fluffy rabbits eat your cables anytime you look away.

 

 

 

[Dillan]

  My question merely said that in sighted listening the more expensive amp sounded much better to me. That could be for any number of reasons of which I would not be conscious. The question was really intended to explore people's values. Should I chose the cheaper amp in the interest of science or the more expensive one in the interest of personal pleasure?
 
I had to laugh at your comment about ostentatious display of wealth. In my circles my headphone is the source of humor - not prestige. My wife refers to my tubes as "bulbs" and thinks the HD800S is ugly and looks ridiculous ))

 
I personally have no problems with people buying things purely for status or because they want to "show off".. Mostly because it is always going to happen in every aspect of consumerism and some companies are going to take advantage of that and make subpar products at astronomical prices. My biggest gripe is when people trick themselves (or are tricked by others) into buying something, because they legitimately think the price or maybe how shiny something is equates to performance/quality. You could argue that it is their ignorance which punishes their wallet, and as long as they're happy then it doesn't matter? However to me - product makers taking advantage of placebo and misinformation shapes the market for the knowledgeable who do want bang for their buck. That's why I feel slightly better challenging people who state their subjective-driven experience as fact..
 
And I can 100% relate to the "bulbs".. my girlfriend calls them the same thing and also think the HD800 are ugly.. I think she's the crazy one!

 

[U-3C]

[...]And I can 100% relate to the "bulbs".. my girlfriend calls them the same thing and also think the HD800 are ugly.. I think she's the crazy one!

Awwww....I wanna get the HD800 not because I like their sound, but because of their looks. I literally just ordered a cheap, "fake" tube amp simply because I wanted those glowing bulbs...and I'm so sad now because I found one at around the same price but looks cooler...

;A;

Of course, I'm probably not going to listen to music out of them because they will probably make my headphones explode if I dare to approach them with a headphone jack. They are just for looks.

 

[Argyris]

I wonder if the HD 800 looks better in person than in pictures, as that was my impression of the HD 600. I'll bet it's smaller than it looks in pictures, which make most headphones look bigger than they actually are.

 

[U-3C]

  I wonder if the HD 800 looks better in person than in pictures, as that was my impression of the HD 600. I'll bet it's smaller than it looks in pictures, which make most headphones look bigger than they actually are.

 
For me, they do look better. For you, they might go from somewhat lookable to OMG GET THIS UGLY PILE OF SCHIIT AWAY FROM ME!!!
 
Never saw the HD 800S, but judging from pictures, I might hate it. However, those are only pictures.

 

[HiFiChris]

@Argyris
 
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, however I've always liked the lean and modern looks of the HD 800, no matter if in pictures or real life. Though, I have the impression that it is fragile although I know it isn't. That (magnesium?) mesh just gives me this impression, so I am always super careful when putting my HD 800 on and off in order not to touch and dent it.
But well, the HD 800 is indeed a large headphone, so I would say that the pictures don't give you a wrong impression about its size but are pretty accurate. A large benefit of that is that your ears have a lot of room inside.

I never knew why some people find/found the HD 600 to look ugly, as in my opinion it is one of the most beautiful, classic and timeless headphones when it comes to design. But then again, beauty is of course in the eye of the beholder. 

 

[Ancipital]

  I wonder if the HD 800 looks better in person than in pictures, as that was my impression of the HD 600. I'll bet it's smaller than it looks in pictures, which make most headphones look bigger than they actually are.

 
The HD6x0 could be a lot worse- while they're big, the cups aren't too deep, and the way they cling to the side of the head means that they look a bit less stupid than they could, and they're surprisingly light and comfy (other than the nasty noise the velour pads make if you are moving them a bit to get them spot-on). I suspect that the HD800/s probably have enough expertise poured into the industrial design that they're making the best of a difficult task. For all that people rage about them, Sennheiser do seem to know what they're doing, in all sorts of ways.
 
My HD400i, on the other hand, have big, ugly cups that stick out from the head (they look a lot more stupid when you're wearing them). The weight is far enough from the head that I wonder if there's not a slight angular momentum thing- rotational momentum being.. proportional to the square of the radius of the motion or something? You certainly feel more clunky wearing them. It's just as well that they provide such outrageous bang for buck and are overall surprisingly comfy- I'll forgive them. 

 

[U-3C]

@Argyris


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, however I've always liked the lean and modern looks of the HD 800, no matter if in pictures or real life. Though, I have the impression that it is fragile although I know it isn't. That (magnesium?) mesh just gives me this impression, so I am always super careful when putting my HD 800 on and off in order not to touch and dent it.

But well, the HD 800 is indeed a large headphone, so I would say that the pictures don't give you a wrong impression about its size but are pretty accurate. A large benefit of that is that your ears have a lot of room inside.


I never knew why some people find/found the HD 600 to look ugly, as in my opinion it is one of the most beautiful, classic and timeless headphones when it comes to design. But then again, beauty is of course in the eye of the beholder. 

First time I showed the HD800 to my friend, I was hitting it hard with my hand and knocking it on wood to show him the build quality, as they infused glass fibers or something into plastic to make it sturdy and light. He freaked out so badly. XD

However, the real reason I did that and boast other qualities of the HD800 was to show reasons why this headphone is expensive, and hopefully draw attention away from the around, because in terms of sound...it's hard to justify being 4~5x the price of all the other headphones he was trying out when the sound improvement for me is about 3 to 5%, and the sound improvement for my friend was about -3 to -5%. Of course, those HD800 were not mine so I guess I really shouldn't have banged it. It was fun though! I even Rick Rolled him. Now he can say that once, his trolling friend dragged him into Audiophilia Land, just to Rick Roll him on a 2k+ setup so he can experience being Rick Rolled as the artist intended, with the highest fidelity one can provide in our city for free. XD

I know people who dream about and warship the HD800. I wonder how they will feel once they get a listen to it. Will they fully appreciate what people mean when they say "diminishing returns hit hard," or will they blame the source, the amp, the cables...

One person I'm thinking of let me listen to his HD600 at our school, which I liked, but it didn't "wow" me as I had equivalent headphones. This friend really really wants the HD800 to experience the night and day, 5x improvement in audio fidelity that is offered by the famous headphones. This friend was kinda surprised about my reaction as he didn't know I'm used to listening to high end headphones. When he saw that I was using my iphone, he told me it isn't a good idea to play music out of it as the phone's dac/amp isn't that great, and I'm better off using my laptop, that maybe that's why I'm not getting the best out of my headphones. That got me curious so I asked him what were the differences he insisted upon, as I can't hear a difference between my laptop's onboard, my dedicated dac/amp, and my iPhone. Perhaps his device actually distorts the sound, or maybe he can simply hear better than me? It would be great to ask him to volunteer in a small listening test!

So, I asked why he recommended me to not use my phone, what were the differences he heard between his phone and laptop...and he said he can't answer. It's not that he can't word his thoughts properly. It's that he doesn't know the difference. He simply believes that the larger laptop must have better audio than the smaller phone.

I found that super interesting so I asked him if he has a dedicated dac/amp. He doesn't, which surprised me. So I let him listen to my portable dac/amp. He listened to my laptop and plugged the headphone into my dac. The total listening session was at most 30 seconds. Anyways, he claims that there is a difference, but the difference is so small, it surprised him, too. He did recommend me to get a hold plated USB cable to enhance the quality of my DAC's fidelity though. XD

This is the closest I've come to testing a pristine...um....inexperienced audiophile (I don't want to use the term placebofile as it sounds quite bad. I want to label him as a person who have read many subjective posts, but have little real life experience with products to form his own opinion. Can't say I'm any better. :/ ). I guess many people like him exist, who swear by high end audio systems exotic setups not because they have heard it, but because they are exposed to the hype generated around it.

But who am I to say? I've never heard my dac with gold plated USB cables plugged into them so judging him would make me hypocritical!

 

[Ancipital]

One person I'm thinking of let me listen to his HD600 at our school, which I liked, but it didn't "wow" me as I had equivalent headphones. This friend really really wants the HD800 to experience the night and day, 5x improvement in audio fidelity that is offered by the famous headphones. This friend was kinda surprised about my reaction as he didn't know I'm used to listening to high end headphones. When he saw that I was using my iphone, he told me it isn't a good idea to play music out of it as the phone's dac/amp isn't that great, and I'm better off using my laptop, that maybe that's why I'm not getting the best out of my headphones. That got me curious so I asked him what were the differences he insisted upon, as I can't hear a difference between my laptop's onboard, my dedicated dac/amp, and my iPhone. Perhaps his device actually distorts the sound, or maybe he can simply hear better than me? It would be great to ask him to volunteer in a small listening test!
 

 
Good grief, given how much the HD6x0 need a beefy amp, and how they come alive when they have one, you might be able to kill him with his own headphones, let alone the HD800.

 

[U-3C]

Although reading the thread (it's from a while ago), I can understand where the person is coming from (telling the OP to save money and buy cheaper headphones that suits his/her needs instead of jumping directly to the HD 800 and an amp, as the OP is clearly sacrificing a lot of money that s/he is reluctant to spend), I can see how people just getting into this hobby (like the OP of the thread this image is from) can misinterpret it and have the unconscious association that eq is bad, or at least can't make improvements superior to buying headphones. So far, I have been convinced that the impact and improvements from dsp and eq>>>>>>>headphones, as proven by Joe Bloggs' amazing work, but when I first started out, I also had the impression that eq was a poor man's fix to an issue, that software tweaks can never match hardware changes. The ignorant are easily excited and manipulated, I guess. It's quite hard for people just coming into this hobby to get over that, which is probably why the OP of that thread wanted great audio fidelity, so s/he jumped straight to the HD 800 even though s/he is completely new to the world of audiophilia.

 

[Argyris]

The effectiveness of EQ in my experience is directly proportional to the base capabilities of the headphone. My DT880, which has low distortion, excellent time domain characteristics (i.e. no ringing, driver settles down quickly), and great extension on both ends (for an open dynamic), is a great candidate for EQ. Notching out two peaks, one at 6 kHz and another at 8.5 kHz, makes it sound stellar. Just today I discovered that my FiiO EX1 (DUNU Titan 1 rebadge) is another excellent candidate. Once again, it has low distortion, great extension in both directions, and great time domain performance. In this case a few notches at 5 kHz and 8.5 kHz, along with a shallow low shelf to ease off the boosted bass and lower midrange, produce superior results. Another surprising success story for me was my old Meelec M6. Similar (though higher amplitude) cuts to those I use on the EX1 leave behind a pleasant and warmish sound on the M6--it's not strictly neutral, but I enjoy it nonetheless. I don't have measurements available for this one, but I would suspect that it similarly has good distortion and time domain performance, though it's lacking in treble extension.
 
In all these cases I started with equipment that offers high overall performance but has some tuning issues that can be effectively addressed with EQ. Other headphones I've tried EQ'ing but without much success are the Koss PortaPro and UR55, an RHA MA-350 (when mine was still functioning), and the Shure SRH440. In the case of the latter two, driving ringing creates a tizzy sound in the treble that EQ can't eliminate (this is what Tyll describes as sounding like cellophane crinkling). The former two have frequency contours that seem too far from neutral to improve them effectively; either that, or I'm just not getting the correct EQ curve. The PortaPro has the additional problem of lacking some treble extension.

 

[U-3C]

[Video]https://www.facebook.com/fytztv/videos/1039731762749133/[/video]


Don't know if you guys can see this.

I feel more and more pressured to not talk bad about products that are well received, even though deep down, I feel like they are bs/straight out useless for certain people who ask for advice. I have to word it so I don't sound like I am disrespecting the product as everybody else respects it. To be honest, many audio products never earned my respect, and after taking to people more, I can see that the products didn't earn those people's respect either. They just try to avoid any negative terms due to social pressure. If I was to give a true review, I'll talk about the good, the bad, and the things that one may hate while another may love. Then I'll try to offer advice based on different people's situation. This doesn't just go for audio products. However, with audio products, it just feels wrong to use terms with negative associations/impressions, so I have to take them out of reword what I'm saying. In fact, if I do speak negatively about an audio product in a direct, honest way (the same way I talk about its positive aspects), simply because it is screwing impossible to have an absolute perfect device and because I want people to who may be in the situation where they really want to avoid a product with this specific issues as it isn't worth the money in their specific case, people will attack me as if I'm a manifestation of Satan or something and keeping someone else away from audio salvation due to my own sadistic needs. :/

 

[Ancipital]

  The effectiveness of EQ in my experience is directly proportional to the base capabilities of the headphone. 

 
Aye, that's the thing that has been bugging me- not every headphone can sound like every other headphone, due to physical limitations. Admittedly, part of the problem in my case is probably imperfect EQ, but even when I get things reasonably dialled in, I'm not going to make my SE215 sound like my planars, try as I might.

 

[Argyris]

https://www.facebook.com/fytztv/videos/1039731762749133/

Don't know if you guys can see this.

I feel more and more pressured to not talk bad about products that are well received, even though deep down, I feel like they are bs/straight out useless for certain people who ask for advice. I have to word it so I don't sound like I am disrespecting the product as everybody else respects it. To be honest, many audio products never earned my respect, and after taking to people more, I can see that the products didn't earn those people's respect either. They just try to avoid any negative terms due to social pressure. If I was to give a true review, I'll talk about the good, the bad, and the things that one may hate while another may love. Then I'll try to offer advice based on different people's situation. This doesn't just go for audio products. However, with audio products, it just feels wrong to use terms with negative associations/impressions, so I have to take them out of reword what I'm saying. In fact, if I do speak negatively about an audio product in a direct, honest way (the same way I talk about its positive aspects), simply because it is screwing impossible to have an absolute perfect device and because I want people to who may be in the situation where they really want to avoid a product with this specific issues as it isn't worth the money in their specific case, people will attack me as if I'm a manifestation of Satan or something and keeping someone else away from audio salvation due to my own sadistic needs. :/

 
It seems to depend on the people and the gear involved. I've mentioned my issues with the HD 600 numerous times in its thread, while otherwise communicating my overall satisfaction with it, and nobody has ever jumped down my throat. Same for the DT880 (I have quite a posting history in that thread) and others in my collection. Since I've never owned an uber flagship, I imagine it's different in those kinds of threads. People probably have more personally invested in such products being seen as great because it requires a greater financial investment in order to own such a product, and some of the people who bought one of these probably had to sacrifice a fair amount in order to afford it. Accordingly, they would be less tolerant of somebody who points out the flaws or otherwise rips into such a product.
 
Something I've noticed (to my surprise) in the HD 600 thread is that folks seem to largely accept the limitations of the headphone, rather than make outlandish suggestions like "Use <amp x> and that'll cure the bass extension problem; loads of extra sub bass with this pairing" or "I don't hear any bass distortion at all, but that's probably because I use <component x>." This could just be because it's been around for so long that everybody has finally got to the point where they can't convince themselves that these kinds of suggestions work anymore, or it could perhaps be because people are more readily accepting of the idea that headphones like the HD 6x0 have flaws because it helps them justify the expense of current flagships. Either way, most of the thread interaction I've had in the impressions threads I frequent has been pretty laid back. I hear every day about impression thread implosions, so I don't deny they happen. I just seem to have found a curious island away from them.