[boinger]

Hmm so what would you recommend, I do get the lower temp tips for the metcal system ? or just go for the hakko 951

Keep in mind they are exactly the same price if maybe the hakko slightly more expensive.

 

[SiBurning]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boinger /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm so what would you recommend, I do get the lower temp tips for the metcal system ? or just go for the hakko 951 Keep in mind they are exactly the same price if maybe the hakko slightly more expensive.

I think you'll be very happy with either one. The Hakko has the edge in temperatures: wider range and no need to buy separate tips. The Metcal probably does a slightly better job, and will support the tweezers.

 

[MonoTekETeA]

Just joined this forum to state how awesome this thread was. I was thinking about a Hakko FM-2024, but think I will just save a few bucks and get a FM-102 and a 808.

Thanks a bunch for your collection and reviews, it is really insightful. Hopefully I can learn something about sound and music while I am here too!

-Jeremy

 

[SiBurning]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonoTekETeA /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just joined this forum to state how awesome this thread was. I was thinking about a Hakko FM-2024, but think I will just save a few bucks and get a FM-102 and a 808. Thanks a bunch for your collection and reviews, it is really insightful. Hopefully I can learn something about sound and music while I am here too! -Jeremy

Thanks. I need to get off my lazy bottom and update some more.

Keep in mind that the 102 (and I think the new FX-951) requires manual calibration. That means you'll need to open it up, check it with a thermometer, and probably replace parts. I haven't tried, so I don't know what's necessary. (It's one of the things I need to get off my bottom and do.) As I mentioned in post #10, mine runs hot by 30F. It's a nice tool for through hole work. The lowest temperature isn't as low as it could be for SMD. And you shouldn't pay much more than 100usd.

I don't recommend getting an expensive, dedicated through hole desoldering tool at all unless you restore a lot of through-hole equipment. If you do mostly older stuff (say, pre 1980), that's exactly the kind of equipment where suckers & bulbs do their best work, and it tends to hold up to heat a lot better, too. Older printed circuit boards were built heavier because they were designed to be hand soldered quickly by average technicians using the same soldering irons they used to solder 18ga wire to screws. For newer equipment, or if you do a lot of desoldering on your DIY projects, it can be very useful. Even one mistake can cost you a board, and maybe an expensive piece of equipment. You have to make the decision based on what you'll do with it. I went for the dedicated station because I perfer tips that are directly heated, but the truth is, it doesn't seem as useful for desoldering as for soldering. In other words, I have to assume the tips on the portable one is just as good. Don't ask me about the vacuum, though.

 

[SiBurning]

Picked up this automated solder feed. It's a SY-003 from Soldering System Enterprise. The soldering iron was just awful, so I ripped it out. Not sure how to adapt that arm for a universal iron holder.

The length and speed of the solder are controlled by dials on the unit, as is (was) the iron temperature. The solder feed itself is activated by a foot pedal. It works okay, but seems to get stuck a lot, depending on the solder thickness. I'm using 0.020", which is thinner than supported by this unit, and probably accounts for the occassional sticking. It's easy enough to get it working again. Just need to pull back the spring and pull fresh solder through the gear. The trick is dong that without breaking the solder and needing to thread it again. It only takes 30 seconds to thread, so it's not a huge deal, but I might get just thicker solder.

The real issue is in how to use this thing. You can certainly use this as is without some kind of moving stage. With a little setup, you can position the circuit board so the solder feeds into the joint when you want it to. It's kind of like a third hand that automatically feeds the solder. Very handy. But...

I think it wants the board to be held in an movable table or stage or something. The XY navigation (and rotation) can be by hand, so that's not really required, since you can just move the board around. The Z does seem to be necessary. Err... well... as necessary as an unnecessary luxury can be. A foot pedal to raise the board would be ideal for completely hands free operation. Of course, you'll need to hand hold the sponge to clean off the iron.

Think about how you'd use this. It puts solder and the iron in a fixed position. The only way to solder is to move the board into that exact position. If the point is to be able to solder quickly, then you need to be able to set things up quickly. It's just not possible to move the board without burning something on the iron unless you have control over the height of the board. Raising and lowering the board is the only way to control how long the iron is on the part. If you think this through, you'll realize that a simple XY table is the wrong kind of stage, since you also need to rotate the board to position the iron properly. I think a Z-stage covered with a silcon baking pad would be perfect. Then you could use a flat vise to hold the board and just move it around by hand.

By the way, the board that's sitting on is the table top from the Pace PRC1000. Note the grounding connector near the rear left.

::cough:: ::cough:: 'nuff said.

 

[SiBurning]

I have no experience with SMD whatsoever. I've stayed away because it's just too small to see, even under a lighted magnifier. That all changed yesterday.

I finally got around to the Mini3. The first step is to install the SMD chips. Question is, how?

I've been wanting to try out the Zephyrtronics pyramid looking air pencil. It's touted as having slow air flow, unlike the normal hot air tools. The slower air is supposed to make it suitable for any type of soldering.

There are two problems. First, the pencil doesn't seem to get hot enough. The temperature air that comes out of the pencil depends not only on theheat settings, but also the speed of airflow. But it couldn't melt my 0.062" 60:40 solder at any settings. Even the 0.020" 63:37 was a little slow. I bought this unit used, so maybe it needs calibration or repair.

So I know this is going to be a rough job with the air pencil. This is my first time using the Zephyrtronics, so it might just take some getting used to. Stupid of me to practise on an expensive chip, instead of some throw away parts.

Out with the solder paste. I don't know how anyone can work with such small parts. The paste comes out of the syringe as huge globs compared to the traces. Well, it's supposed to work just fine globbing it all over the traces. The flux is supposed to do some kind of magical attraction thing I remember hearing about vaguely in Chemistry class, so I just globbed the gunk all over and hoped for the best.

Working under the cheap lighted magnifier, the solder looks like it flows, and I was able to get it to where it looked good at 2.6x magnification. The chip was a little off center, but looked okay. It did take longer that I was comfortable with, but not so long that I was really worried.

But the microscope told a very different story. Under the microscope it was a mess. There were blobs and splashes of solder beads everywhere. (The solder paste is made of tiny beads of solder in some flux fluid.) One mound melted and nestled between two leads and hid out mostly behind the leads, under the chip. There were other potential solder bridges all over the place. Okay. easy enough to fix. just need to flow it more.

No pictures of that because they didn't come out. I'm still struggling with the camera and lighting. The mirror in the camera shakes when it takes a picture, which blurrs the picture. Wish I knew about this before buying the camera, since other models are available that move the mirror first, then settle down and take the picture later. So, apologies for blurry shots.

So after a whole lot more heat... I could see flux rippling around, but there was no visible clue about whether the solder was melting or not. I had to grab the visor and keep flipping down the magnifier to check. It finally looked good.

Well, here's one chip. You can see how it's misaligned, but it should work just fine. The solder splashes are gone, and there aren't any more visible shorts, but it took a long time to get there. Two of the traces are burnt, and I'm not sure the chip itself survived the heat.

Moving in a little closer reveals how much solder is still on the board. There's two traces of solder coming off the top right pin. They're not touching anything, but still. You can also see some unmelted solder beads splashed around the board.

Both of these closeups were taken after about three heavy sprays of solder cleaner, but I didn't wipe, just spray. This next picture shows just how much flux is still left between the leads and under the chip. Before remelting, there was even more flux, and it was full of solder beads. You can also see the condition of the chip in this picture. I'm not sure if the stuff melted on top of the chip is splash from the solder paste, or something on the chip melting, like maybe the ink.

Score:
Zephyrtronics -1
Mini3 -1
Cheap lighted magnifier -1
SiBurning +1

+1 for me? Yes. They say we learn from out mistakes until we can repeat them exactly. Next time I try to flow something, I might pull out a small tip with a better air machine. Meanwhile, I have to find out more about that pyramid looking thing.

 

[cobaltmute]

SMT work needs *very* little solder.

I did one board using the skillet method. The paste out of the syringe didn't want to stick and I ended up cleaning the board about 5 times before I got to actually placing the chips. I found the smallest of dabs of solder paste worked ok (like a small dab covering 1/3 of the pad). End result after heating looked very good though.

 

[deltaydeltax]

How do you like the Weller Fumex? I have a Pace Arm-Evac which works really well. It's loud, but takes care of all fumes, and even gets rid of odors.


Quote:

Originally Posted by SiBurning /img/forum/go_quote.gif Picked up this automated solder feed. The soldering iron was just awful, so I ripped it out. Not sure how to adapt that arm for a universal iron holder. The length and speed of the solder are controlled by dials on the unit, as is (was) the iron temperature. The solder feed itself is activated by a foot pedal. It works okay, but seems to get stuck a lot, depending on the solder thickness. I'm using 0.020", which is thinner than supported by this unit, and probably accounts for the occassional sticking. It's easy enough to get it working again. Just need to pull back the spring and pull fresh solder through the gear. The trick is dong that without breaking the solder and needing to thread it again. It only takes 30 seconds to thread, so it's not a huge deal, but I might get just thicker solder. The real issue is in how to use this thing. You can certainly use this as is without some kind of moving stage. With a little setup, you can position the circuit board so the solder feeds into the joint when you want it to. It's kind of like a third hand that automatically feeds the solder. Very handy. But... I think it wants the board to be held in an movable table or stage or something. The XY navigation (and rotation) can be by hand, so that's not really required, since you can just move the board around. The Z does seem to be necessary. Err... well... as necessary as an unnecessary luxury can be. A foot pedal to raise the board would be ideal for completely hands free operation. Of course, you'll need to hand hold the sponge to clean off the iron. Think about how you'd use this. It puts solder and the iron in a fixed position. The only way to solder is to move the board into that exact position. If the point is to be able to solder quickly, then you need to be able to set things up quickly. It's just not possible to move the board without burning something on the iron unless you have control over the height of the board. Raising and lowering the board is the only way to control how long the iron is on the part. If you think this through, you'll realize that a simple XY table is the wrong kind of stage, since you also need to rotate the board to position the iron properly. I think a Z-stage covered with a silcon baking pad would be perfect. Then you could use a flat vise to hold the board and just move it around by hand. By the way, the board that's sitting on is the table top from the Pace PRC1000. Note the grounding connector near the rear left. ::cough:: ::cough:: 'nuff said.

 

[SiBurning]

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaydeltax /img/forum/go_quote.gif How do you like the Weller Fumex? I have a Pace Arm-Evac which works really well. It's loud, but takes care of all fumes, and even gets rid of odors.

Just checked the Pace line. Very nice options for filters, but the filters are a bit expensive.

Can't really say much about the Weller. It works. I've tried it. Once. But I don't use it regularly. It's just too loud and annoying. It obviously has an air compressor inside. I can hear it chugging away loudly under pressure from the small tube. The tubing on it is for a soldering iron. I should probably just attach it to a helping hand and use it. The nice thing about it is the hepa filters are relatively inexpensive.

I also have a Hakko 3010, the outdated precursor to the current 3100. It came with a clean hepa filter, but I don't know if the new filters are compatible--I have to call them, but I might be stuck. It's got no tubing. I've only used it as a room air cleaner, just letting the little hole suck in air, and it cleans out the room in a few minutes, just like a hepa air filter machine should. This might end up being used elsewhere--not for electronics. Maybe the kitchen. It whirrs like a fine tuned vacuum cleaner. A bit too loud for late night use, but nowhere near as annoying as the compressor.

So far, the one I actually use is the little Hakko 493 fan thing. It's nice and quiet, like a fan should be. Filters are cheap--about $10us I think. Unfortunately, it's got no hepa filter, so eventually, I need to hook up one of the other machines. I think you can get the 493 filters either as the accordion-folded paper type (like an old car air filter) or charcoal, but it doesn't look like you can install them both at the same time. I'll try that when this accordion filter gets rotten and I have to order more.

For others considering a filter, the filters on the cheap systems--like the Hakko 493--are essentially the prefilters used on more expensive devices, although the Weller doesn't seem to have a prefilter. The Hakko 3100 and the Pace systems do have prefilters. They help protect the more expensive hepa filters and prolong their life. Otherwise, any of these will work okay for a single soldering station. Not all the lead and other fumes are removed by the cheap filters even though the air coming out the back is clear. The hepa filters will take a lot of that stuff out, especially the charcoal activated filters. Don't use a cheap filter without ventillation, and do the research on the more expensive solutions before you close the windows. I don't know exactly which filters remove what percentage of which particles and gasses, but I do know that none of these is going to stop you from choking when you spray that flux remover on your circuit board. ::cough::

I think there's space for all three of these. The Weller would make a good point station, attaching the tubing directly to the soldering iron. Or attaching it to a small shroud just above the soldering area. The small hakko would be good to connect to a window--get some cheap filtering at the source, then send the result through a tube to a square attachment mounted in a window thing. Good for sprays, burnt stuff, and things like that. Finally, the larger hakko would be good to clean the room more generally, although there's no need for a separate device, since all it requires is a splitter off the point tubing. Not so for a window fan.

 

[MonoTekETeA]

Yeah, I plan on doing a lot of Arcade PCBs, which almost make the year mark, but are still manufactured by machine. I ordered my FP-102 on ebay for $130 shipped, and am happily waiting for it. I will be ordering the 808 tonight.

 

[SiBurning]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MonoTekETeA /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, I plan on doing a lot of Arcade PCBs, which almost make the year mark, but are still manufactured by machine. I ordered my FP-102 on ebay for $130 shipped, and am happily waiting for it. I will be ordering the 808 tonight.

Makes sense for arcades.
Let us know how the 808 is.

 

[SiBurning]

Before you solder parts, you need to cut and form the leads and place them on the circuit board. Here are some cool toys that make that more fun.

xcelite 1178m:
Everyone should have a pair of flush cutters. They allow you to cut leads flush against the solder or board. As pointed out below, you should probably have a real good pair of flush cutters or something like them. The xcelite isn't all that great, and not well worth the money.

Hakko TR-3015:
Even better are offset cutters that cut a fixed distance from the board.

Hakko TS-30:
Offset cutters come in a trimmer style, too.

Hakko PN-5040:
This former makes easy work of 90 degree angles.

Hakko PTR-30-C:
This one puts a kink (aka strain relief) in the lead to help hold it in place on the circuit board. For axial leads, bend the part while still in the grip of this former to bend the leads 90 degrees. You'll quickly get the hang of how to fit the part while leaving room for the bend.

Hakko TP-30:
I'm not sure of the intended use of this tool. You can't just put the TP-30 up to the component and cut/form. You need to place it at the right distance, and then fit the part with pressure. The alternative is to surface mount the part.

Hakko PPR-5001 & PPR-5002:
These help form a double bend, which is used to convert axial leads for radial use. I'm not quite sure how to use them.

It seems like you're supposed to grasp one lead in the left side and fold the other lead over until it fits neatly in the right side.

Xuron xuro-former 573:
This is my favorite of the pack. It forms a strain relief that holds the part on the board. The cool thing is this kink can be made vibration proof. (See the following picture.)

You might want to take these kinks a little further, bending the leads into various formations. You can do that best while the part is still gripped in the former. The v-shaped kink is supposed to act like a spring, damping vibration and other mechanical movement. I forget the technical term for this kind of kink, but I think it was mandatory in certain circles for larger parts like 470uF and larger capacitors. You're supposed to solder this below the double-kink, leaving it free to damp vibrations.

The front two use the xuron. I bent the front part back 90 degrees while in the grip of the former to form the old-school vibration-proof strain relief. Take note that instead of using the v-shape for vertical vibration damping, I use that part to hold onto the circuit board. Instead, I bent the lead while in the former to form a free double kink in the horizontal direction. The middle part uses the xuron without bending the part further. The part in the rear was formed with the TP-30.

Oops! Anyone know how to use the TP-30?

Many of the Hakko CHP line of hand cutters & formers are out of stock or discontinued. While some of them are quite good, there are better tools out there. The problem is they're just as hard to find and 2-10 times the cost. I fell in love with two of them until I saw the price. $185 and $219. That's why I broke down and ordered the Hakko CHP tools.

 

[MisterX]

Quote:

xcelite 1178m: Everyone should have a better pair of flush cutters then these.

Fixed that for you.

 

[luvdunhill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterX /img/forum/go_quote.gif Fixed that for you.

agreed. I'll probably never buy another xcelite tool.. I have a bunch and when they get out of alignment (which seems to be how they start to fail) I'll replace them with similar CK tools, which literally will last a lifetime.

 

[SiBurning]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterX /img/forum/go_quote.gif Fixed that for you.

Yeah, the xcelite seemed a bit rough from day one, but it's better than the sears cutters they replaced. It's always been just a bit out of alignment. Maybe in a strange way that's why I haven't replaced it. I'm also just a bit out of alignment.

Thanks for pointing that out. I fixed that post.