[Judge Buff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanma /img/forum/go_quote.gif Call me synical but I am a little sceptical about the review. How come you get a free review sample? And obvously if its a bad review you wont get any more. Plus the only place I see them for sale shares the pictures with the reviewer. I am not accusing just want to know how you get the review stuff and how come there only on ebay at the same time as the review was posted. If its a new phone will it be available from other outlets (Fang etc) Before I put down my dollars I want to see if anyone else has tried them (a second opinion)

You just arrive at the party and start peeing on the people that have been there for a while because you're skeptical of their impressions? joker is too nice to really put you in your place. No one in this thread cares if you "put down [your] dollars" for anything. I have only been around for almost a year but I trust joker's opinions about head-fi stuff based on what I've read over the last 11 months. He's not "hawking" wares IMO and he's one of the nicest people here. While we are free to dissent and discuss, I, for one, don't think he's a shill for the vendor. Neither is clieOS or tstarn...

Be real careful impugning the character of others... Play nice, okay? Watch and listen for a while. I've never seen pics shared that way either, but I don't accuse joker of anything. You shouldn't either. My $.02 worth...

I want to get a pair of them to try out actually, because I trust his opinion and tstarn's.

 

[tstarn06]

Yeah, and no one likes a synical or sceptical [double sic] person. LOL. I am just curious about the PRO1, of course. Do I need them? Like a hole in the head, as the "kliche" goes.

 

[ljokerl]

Ah, yes, I forgot. Tstarn bought a pair of these too. Me and him don't usually agree so his opinion should be a good contrast to mine

.

 

[tstarn06]

I love them already.

And we only disagreed on the im590 and the S4, right? Wait, are those the only two we've both owned? No, I have the ADDIEM (like them) and Ksc75 (like them, but modded), had the PFE (liked them too), PL30 (didn't like them much), and Zino (didn't care much for them overall).

Oh well, I guess I will have to read all your reviews to see if you like the phones we co-owned, apart from the S4 and im590.

 

[ljokerl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I love them already. And we only disagreed on the im590 and the S4, right? Wait, are those the only two we've both owned? No, I have the ADDIEM (like them) and Ksc75 (like them, but modded), had the PFE (liked them too), PL30 (didn't like them much), and Zino (didn't care much for them overall). Oh well, I guess I will have to read all your reviews to see if you like the phones we co-owned, apart from the S4 and im590.

Haha. I think I have everything you've had right now. I agree on the Zinos - haven't reviewed them in full but they just aren't worth $100. $35 maybe. The addiems are stellar and hugely underrated. I did like the PL30s - they were one of my first IEMs and were a huge upgrade from marshmallows imho, but they really aren't too good compared to some of the more recent $20 IEMs.

 

[sandys]

a question on build quality - is it better or worse that the RE0/RE2 ?

Are you finding the lack of strain reliefs, particularly worrisome ?

 

[elanma]

I didnt mean to pee on anyone. As you say I am new on here and came back after having some Yuins for about 6months till I lost them for some new advice. I had no idea that if you wrote reviews on here you got free samples. I saw that the reviewer was a long standing member and thats whats confused me as I believe his judgements must be with some experience. I do believe also however that opionions differ and its good to see some other users who like them. I am still a little confused why vendors give out samples when there is no apparent outlet for the products in the english speaking world (ie not asian websites) it doesnt make much econmoic sense to me to promote the product that you cannot easily buy.

(Ie Cyclones and Fisher) I tried to be polite as possibe, and to be honest you have to be careful what you read on the internet and there was nothing wrong in raising the question in open debate if anyone else had the same opionions as the reviewer.

 

[kmhaynes]

Well, based on ljokerl's little table:

Detail: ------- RE0 > PR1 > RE2
Soundstage: - PR1 > RE0 > RE2
Separation: -- RE0 >= PR1 > RE2
Clarity: ------ RE0 > PR1 >= RE2
Mids: -------- RE0 > PR1 >= RE2
Treble: ------ RE0 > PR1 > RE2
Bass (quality): PR1 >= RE0 > RE2+E5
Bass (qty):--- PR1 > RE0 >= RE2+E5

I'm keeping my RE0. After more than 200 hours on my RE0, the bass is much more present than pre-40 hrs -- still not bass-head level, but I'm happy with it, especially since the RE0 does so many other things well.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanma /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didnt mean to pee on anyone. As you say I am new on here and came back after having some Yuins for about 6months till I lost them for some new advice. I had no idea that if you wrote reviews on here you got free samples. I saw that the reviewer was a long standing member and thats whats confused me as I believe his judgements must be with some experience. I do believe also however that opionions differ and its good to see some other users who like them. I am still a little confused why vendors give out samples when there is no apparent outlet for the products in the english speaking world (ie not asian websites) it doesnt make much econmoic sense to me to promote the product that you cannot easily buy. (Ie Cyclones and Fisher) I tried to be polite as possibe, and to be honest you have to be careful what you read on the internet and there was nothing wrong in raising the question in open debate if anyone else had the same opionions as the reviewer.

Many, not all, reviews here are based on people getting gear free of charge. It's just the way it is. I know I try my best to find the bad and good in a product when I write a review about something I didn't pay for (or did pay for for that matter), and if a vendor decides that's unacceptable, I guess no more reviews/gear. That's life.

No doubt that there might be a little coloration when something is given free to review, but again, it's about balance. That's all most members expect from a review.

Yes, vendors give away samples for review. So what? You think the people at CNET, Anythingbutipod, etc., pay for their review gear? It's a fact of life, I think.

As for being careful about what you read on the net, duh.

In this case, joker got some phones from a vendor, listened to them, liked them, and said so. Pretty simple stuff.

As an FYI, I also have reviewed (or at least posted opinions about) gear that I paid for as well, including the PFEs, Um3X, Klipsch S4s, etc., three phones I really like, and many, many others. The bulk of the things I own/owned I paid for, I'm sure the same is true for Joker.

Even with clarification, your post still makes little or no sense. Should members reading reviews take each one with a few grains of salt? Of course. Doesn't mean every review is tainted, either. Getting free stuff can be a slippery slope, but not as long as the reviewer makes it clear they obtained the gear they are reviewing gratis. And tries to be fair and balanced about the product, delivering the good with the bad (or more of one than the other, depending on the product).

Okay, back to the Pro1. Looking forward to hearing mine. But if they suck ... Joker, you shill!

 

[ljokerl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandys /img/forum/go_quote.gif a question on build quality - is it better or worse that the RE0/RE2 ? Are you finding the lack of strain reliefs, particularly worrisome ?

Yes, the lack of strain reliefs is exactly what worries me. The housings themselves feel more solid than the RE2, about on-par with the RE0, but with the lack of strain reliefs i'd say these are on-par with RE2 and below the RE0 build-wise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elanma /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didnt mean to pee on anyone. As you say I am new on here and came back after having some Yuins for about 6months till I lost them for some new advice. I had no idea that if you wrote reviews on here you got free samples. I saw that the reviewer was a long standing member and thats whats confused me as I believe his judgements must be with some experience. I do believe also however that opionions differ and its good to see some other users who like them. I am still a little confused why vendors give out samples when there is no apparent outlet for the products in the english speaking world (ie not asian websites) it doesnt make much econmoic sense to me to promote the product that you cannot easily buy. (Ie Cyclones and Fisher) I tried to be polite as possibe, and to be honest you have to be careful what you read on the internet and there was nothing wrong in raising the question in open debate if anyone else had the same opionions as the reviewer.

I'm sure your intention was not to insult but you posted some strong statements for someone who seems to have absolutely no idea how online reviews work. Head-Fi is a respected worldwide community and there are many foreign members here who do have access to Cyclone products. There are also international retailers that sell cyclone products. Lastly, local forums often reference head-fi and local audiophile communities are a big target for companies like Cyclone and Soundmagic.

Fischer, on the other hand, is not averse to international distribution and seem to be working on it and it makes sense for them to generate some buzz in the pursuit of international distribution.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmhaynes /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, based on ljokerl's little table: [...] I'm keeping my RE0. After more than 200 hours on my RE0, the bass is much more present than pre-40 hrs -- still not bass-head level, but I'm happy with it, especially since the RE0 does so many other things well.

True, I didn't say the PR1 was a better all-arounder than the RE0. What is amazing (to me) is that it does a few things better than the RE0 and comes very close in most areas for 1/2 the price. And that's considering that the RE0 are a price/performance powerhouse to begin with

. I wouldn't be surprised if some people prefer the PR1 to the RE0, either, because it is a slightly less neutral signature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif As an FYI, I also have reviewed (or at least posted opinions about) gear that I paid for as well, including the PFEs, Um3X, Klipsch S4s, etc., three phones I really like, and many, many others. The bulk of the things I own/owned I paid for, I'm sure the same is true for Joker. Even with clarification, your post still makes little or no sense. Should members reading reviews take each one with a few grains of salt? Of course. Doesn't mean every review is tainted, either. Getting free stuff can be a slippery slope, but not as long as the reviewer makes it clear they obtained the gear they are reviewing gratis. And tries to be fair and balanced about the product, delivering the good with the bad (or more of one than the other, depending on the product). Okay, back to the Pro1. Looking forward to hearing mine. But if they suck ... Joker, you shill!

Yeah, agree. I actually did buy the majority of my gear - gotta start somewhere, right? None of my full-size and portable cans are samples, nor is the majority of my IEMs, especially stuff I've had for a while. I'm not averse to buying gear just for review purposes (ahem.. Skullcandys) but I believe that reviewers provide a more or less valuable service to the community and I don't see an issue with trying to stay cash-positive in the process. As you can see, I'm on the line here with the Cyclones

. I always try to do my best to express what I'm hearing. Some people agree, some don't. I guess the only way to know is to try stuff yourself.

 

[jant71]

I been catching up on this thread. @ elanma: do your homework. As more of a newbie this is what you should be doing. In the time it took to write up your doubts you could have searched and learned two things. The PR1 and 2 are known including here on Head-fi(mainly the PR2). This is a second generation product and you could find other posts and threads ljokerl has started or been involved in to gauge him as much as you felt was needed. You would have your second opinions on the Cyclone products and the reviewer and most likely not posted that opinion in this particular case. Plus you kind of rubbed some people the wrong way to boot.

Back on the real topic, probably the durability is the only issue. My pair is holding up fine but time will tell for sure. We can't just sit on them for six months before talking about them to make sure they hold up. The build is what you expect for the price and the sound is better than what you'd expect. I remember posting doubts about the M9 which both pairs I had experienced issues. So, in the early stages it can be a bit of a risk outside the big boys and even they have issues from time to time(Shure). Just the normal concerns so far that will fade with time.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljokerl /img/forum/go_quote.gif Fischer, on the other hand, is not averse to international distribution and seem to be working on it and it makes sense for them to generate some buzz in the pursuit of international distribution.

Obviously I can't say in 100% certainty, but I believe it was probably never Fischer Audio's original intention to generate (so much of a) buss nor to establish international distribution. They were probably just looking for some 'outsider' review for their Scandinavia and Russia market. If anything, I think they got as much surprise from me as I from them.

 

[lasraik]

Thank you for taking the time to share this information

 

[patiently]

Very interested in these, but worried about the lows as someone who likes some power/warmth in their bass without it being wildly imbalanced.

I would have assumed the bass is more prominent than the PL50, but Joker's comparison seems to say it's a negligible difference?

 

[ljokerl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by patiently /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very interested in these, but worried about the lows as someone who likes some power/warmth in their bass without it being wildly imbalanced. I would have assumed the bass is more prominent than the PL50, but Joker's comparison seems to say it's a negligible difference?

I wouldn't say that the bass is more prominent than the PL50s since the Cyclones are more laid-back sounding. I can't say that the Cyclones have more bass, either, because the PL50 drivers respond so well to eqing. They definitely have low-end grunt, but they aren't aggressive about it the way bass-heavy headphones are.