[Mini0510]

Quote:

From what I've read of joe's own perceptions, its clear that (to him) the SE flagship is probably the best overall, even if he might not admit it
 
If money is no object, I'd go for the SE offering (silicone is also a very nice thing. More isolation, more comfort, less chance of breaking due to drops). Though it'll probably cost more than $1400 due to the extra cost of moving it to wherever you live.
 
The Miracles do however, have detachable cables. I'm also not sure if the SE offerings have much in terms of design (I don't see many colours, cables.. not sure if they have custom art). The Miracles are some of the most customizable customs there are.

But Im just wondering if it's worth it. I can see that joe feels the SE 5-Way is the best IEM compared to all the other ones he owns. But if there is minimum differences between Miracle/LS8 and 5-Way. It is kind of not worth the hassle and money right? Even if it is better by a margin, but if my ears can't appreciate it, then...I guess it's not worth it.
 
I still need to find a way to get it since I live in Canada.
 

 

[Kanashimu]

The thing is, silicone is something your ears will appreciate regardless of whether you can appreciate sonic differences. That being said, if you don't care for that, it suddenly becomes more difficult to justify the purchase.

I checked the UM distributor for North American a moment ago, and it seems like the Miracles have gone up to $949, from $929. A minor inconvenience that continues to make the decision more difficult

However, if you still have that offer of $800, then good for you!
 
There are hassle dealing with UM as well - Chinese customs inspections are more of a nightmare than dealing with European customs inspections. If my Miracles end up having fit issues or need warranty I will certainly be pissed, to put it nicely.

 

[tupac0306]

U will need to wait for at least 2-3 months at least to get a 5 way. There are really really busy and there is a quene there.

 
Quote:

But Im just wondering if it's worth it. I can see that joe feels the SE 5-Way is the best IEM compared to all the other ones he owns. But if there is minimum differences between Miracle/LS8 and 5-Way. It is kind of not worth the hassle and money right? Even if it is better by a margin, but if my ears can't appreciate it, then...I guess it's not worth it.
 
I still need to find a way to get it since I live in Canada.
 

 

 

[tupac0306]

Wow. NT6 PRO is 5 way crossed too...Korean guys are doing good! Looking forward to your impressions joe!

 

[tupac0306]

U will need to take some pictures of your ear impressions on a squared paper and send to them. They will start from there.
 
Quote:

1. Joe, how much difference is there between the Rooth LS8 and SE 5-way? Is it barely noticeable or there is some difference?
It's just that I can get Unique Melody Miracles at $800, Rooth LS8 for $1000 and SE 5-Way 999 Euros = $1400.
So there is some differences, then it will be worth it to get SE 5-Way. I mean it is $400 more.
I mean I do want to buy the best IEM there is but if my ears aren't able to hear the quality, then it is not worth it to get it.
 
2. For Rooth LS8, you stated that the sonic changes at 6k as a weakness in the multi custom review thread.
That seems really minor from the way you wrote it. Im not sure if I interpret it accurately.
 
3. and how big does your ears have to be for the SE 5-Way? above average?
is it overall ear size or just the ear canal, because the 5 tubes?

 

 

[Mini0510]

Joe, how much difference is there between your LS8 and SE 5-Way?
is the difference only distinguishable on some tracks?
 
Joe, or anyone else here, know any customs or top tier universals have similar sound signature to Klipsch S4 or Sony + little more bass?
People said Klipsch S4 is V shaped. What shape is the LS8?
I hate to say this but I'm not going to deny it. I actually really like the Klipsch sound signature. Sony is good but a little more bass is better. Monster Turbine are just for bass heads. The treble is barely present.

 

[average_joe]

Is the 5-way better than the rest and is it worth the extra money?  As I have always said, sound signature plays an important role in if something is best for each person, so for those that like brighter sounding headphones (Tesla T1, DBA-02, CK10, EX1000, etc.) the 5-way may not be your best choice.  Technically it is better than everything else I have posted a review of.  If it is worth the possible extra issues to get it as well as the extra cost is completely up to each individual and something I can't comment on.  I will say I have spent a good amount of time with the 5-way just enjoying them!
 
How much different/how much of an improvement is there vs. the LS8?  Perspective plays a role...if you have only heard one, that will be the best and you won't know what you are missing from the other.  Both have different sound signatures as well, so they would suit different tastes and are different on just about all tracks to my ears.  I consider the differences significant, but I can enjoy the LS8 if I just grab it for listening, but not as much if I listen to the 5-way first.

 

[Mini0510]

Quote:

Is the 5-way better than the rest and is it worth the extra money?  As I have always said, sound signature plays an important role in if something is best for each person, so for those that like brighter sounding headphones (Tesla T1, DBA-02, CK10, EX1000, etc.) the 5-way may not be your best choice.  Technically it is better than everything else I have posted a review of.  If it is worth the possible extra issues to get it as well as the extra cost is completely up to each individual and something I can't comment on.  I will say I have spent a good amount of time with the 5-way just enjoying them!
 
How much different/how much of an improvement is there vs. the LS8?  Perspective plays a role...if you have only heard one, that will be the best and you won't know what you are missing from the other.  Both have different sound signatures as well, so they would suit different tastes and are different on just about all tracks to my ears.  I consider the differences significant, but I can enjoy the LS8 if I just grab it for listening, but not as much if I listen to the 5-way first.

I like lets say harsh treble and punch, deep bass. Not overwhelming amount of bass. The bass should not blend with the treble.
I like 3D presentation. 
 
and what is V shape and mild V shape? There are some people commenting about the Klipsch S4's treble a little harsh. It seems it is a V shaped earphone.
 
So does V shape mean extended, harsh treble with strong present bass? Im really not familiar to these description
 

 

[Claus-DK]

 
Quote:

Thanks how does it compare to your heaphones? is it better or different or worse?
 

I do not have the arsenal like Joe, I only got about 30 phones in my home LOL
 
In some regards the ref5 is better than anything else I have heard and I have heard a lot over the years, up till now my favorite phones was the JVC DX1000 and I still love those very much, but it is a bit like comparing apples and oranges, both are amazingly good phones, but very very different in their presentation, it would be like picking which of your kids you love the most..impossible choice, so in that regard they are "just" different..
 
What the ref5 does better than others is the intimacy, I feel closer to the music, it is more involving, it is more true..
 
To me the REF5 is so different when using various sources, which makes it hard to compare it, with some sources it trounces everything and with others it is just a little bit better.. So you can almost give them anysignature you whish..
 
I was not very impressed with the HIFIman 602 way to muddy for my ears and also to dark sounding, I use my Hisound Studio instead as it is much more clear in the sound has a good amp builtin which makes it a very nice portable setup..
At work I mostly just use my Sansa Clip+ or Meizu SL8, but when I want to spoil myself I bring the studio with me..
I mainly use my ref5 at my job where they also double as earprotection, you might as well spend some bucks on protecting you ears, it can be done cheaper, but I somehow doubt it can be better..
 
At home I mostly use full size phones and what really scares me in that regard is that my favorite fullsize phone is so unrealistic cheap that it is hard to understand, but it is a pair of phones that cost about 50 $ and they honestly beats the living daylight out of every sub 1000$ phones I have heard, it took a little modding, new leather pads, but for the price nothing and I do mean NOTHING comes even halfway to being close to them..
It is a relative unknow Chinese brand called "Takstar" the model is HI2050, they do look a bit like a pair of DT880, but only on the first glance, as they are very different when you take a closer look..
 

 

[Claus-DK]

A small comment on the durability of silikone IEMs, SE made a full custom of my q-JAYS and when they were a week old or so they were caught in my cardoor, I even slammed the door twice to close it, only to discover that my phones were in the way, they survived that without any problems, how is that for durability ??
 
Not a test I would recommend...

 

[Mini0510]

ok LOL

 

[average_joe]

 
Quote:

I like lets say harsh treble and punch, deep bass. Not overwhelming amount of bass. The bass should not blend with the treble.
I like 3D presentation. 
 
and what is V shape and mild V shape? There are some people commenting about the Klipsch S4's treble a little harsh. It seems it is a V shaped earphone.
 
So does V shape mean extended, harsh treble with strong present bass? Im really not familiar to these description

Harsh treble or a lot of treble?  The LS8 is very smooth and liquid but offers quite a bit of upper mids/treble.  If you really like harsh treble I consider the UERM and TS842 to be harsh in the treble region compared with the LS8 and 5-way.  
 
V-shape is when either the mids are recessed or the bass and  treble is enhanced.  Custom IEMs tend to me more of the latter, except the TS842, which means the midrange is where you would expect it to be, not too forward and not too far back.
 
None of the custom IEMs I have have bass that blends with the treble or interferes in any way, well, except the EP-10 Plus. And the same can be said for the midrange except the EM3 Pro to an extend (mid-bass causes a veil) and the EP-10 Plus (so much bass it seems to overload my ears).
 
Back to the 5-way...it is not lacking in treble at all and has the most extended treble of anything I have, but it is not bright like the LS8.  If you want something other than the 5-way, please feel free to ask in my multi-custom IEM thread.
 
Quote:

I do not have the arsenal like Joe, I only got about 30 phones in my home LOL
 
In some regards the ref5 is better than anything else I have heard and I have heard a lot over the years, up till now my favorite phones was the JVC DX1000 and I still love those very much, but it is a bit like comparing apples and oranges, both are amazingly good phones, but very very different in their presentation, it would be like picking which of your kids you love the most..impossible choice, so in that regard they are "just" different..
 
What the ref5 does better than others is the intimacy, I feel closer to the music, it is more involving, it is more true..
 
To me the REF5 is so different when using various sources, which makes it hard to compare it, with some sources it trounces everything and with others it is just a little bit better.. So you can almost give them anysignature you whish..
 
I was not very impressed with the HIFIman 602 way to muddy for my ears and also to dark sounding, I use my Hisound Studio instead as it is much more clear in the sound has a good amp builtin which makes it a very nice portable setup..
At work I mostly just use my Sansa Clip+ or Meizu SL8, but when I want to spoil myself I bring the studio with me..
I mainly use my ref5 at my job where they also double as earprotection, you might as well spend some bucks on protecting you ears, it can be done cheaper, but I somehow doubt it can be better..
 
At home I mostly use full size phones and what really scares me in that regard is that my favorite fullsize phone is so unrealistic cheap that it is hard to understand, but it is a pair of phones that cost about 50 $ and they honestly beats the living daylight out of every sub 1000$ phones I have heard, it took a little modding, new leather pads, but for the price nothing and I do mean NOTHING comes even halfway to being close to them..
It is a relative unknow Chinese brand called "Takstar" the model is HI2050, they do look a bit like a pair of DT880, but only on the first glance, as they are very different when you take a closer look..
 

Thanks for the added info.  I will say I thought the LCD-2 v1 sounded pretty good (but something about it was not ideal for me) until I got the 5-way and then the 5-way made the LCD-2 sound a bit off in tone.  The only thing that really comes to mind for competition is the HD800, but I know the sound of the HD800 is very different.  I will probably get one at some point, but that is an all in proposition as you need a good tube amp with the HD800.  
 
I completely agree that source will change the overall performance, but I still hear the sound signature of the 5-way.  And this is the same for all of my custom IEMs, but some much more than others.  For example, the LS8 and JH16 are very sensitive and my best amp vs. my lowest amp doesn't change too much with them, but with the 5-way there is a much more noticeable change. 
 
Also, I am surprised to hear about your results with the Studio, what firmware do you have?  My 801 just smokes the Studio, but then it should for the price difference.  I do know the 801 and 601 sound quite different.
 
So, how does the HI2050 compare with the 5-way?  I would rather use a custom IEM than a full sized at home for the better SQ I get (vs. LCD-2).
 
Quote:

A small comment on the durability of silikone IEMs, SE made a full custom of my q-JAYS and when they were a week old or so they were caught in my cardoor, I even slammed the door twice to close it, only to discover that my phones were in the way, they survived that without any problems, how is that for durability ??
 
Not a test I would recommend...

 
So, Grzegorz does reshells in silicone...he may be one of the only 2 that I know of (1964 is the other).  Or was it a special thing?
 
And nice durability.  I don't feel concerned with the durability other than the cable, but I baby them most of the time.

 

[Claus-DK]

Quote:

Also, I am surprised to hear about your results with the Studio, what firmware do you have?  My 801 just smokes the Studio, but then it should for the price difference.  I do know the 801 and 601 sound quite different.
 
So, how does the HI2050 compare with the 5-way?  I would rather use a custom IEM than a full sized at home for the better SQ I get (vs. LCD-2).
 
 
So, Grzegorz does reshells in silicone...he may be one of the only 2 that I know of (1964 is the other).  Or was it a special thing?
 
And nice durability.  I don't feel concerned with the durability other than the cable, but I baby them most of the time.1

I use the "Normal" firmware, the BA version (you kindly sent me) makes it "lifeless" in lack of better words, The HiFimen gets a lot of hype on our Danish forum, but they are not my taste, I have only heard the 601 so can not comment on the other models, but the look and feel of the hifimen are also close to make me vomit, a player at that price should be easier to use and be made of a better platictype and those two things really puts me off the hifimen... Others might feel different.
 
The reshelling of the q-JAYS was a special thing, I do not think he does that very often or at all..
 
I treat mine like they cost 10$, to me they are a "tool" I use at work, I sometimes put them in the nice case that comes with it, but mostly they are just put in my bag..
 
The switch I do when I get home is mostly because I use the SE for 10-12 hours a day and like to get a different presentation when I am at home, also having a kid makes the use of IEMs a bit cumbersome at home, as I need to be able to hear what that little rugrat is up to lol..
 
The 2050 is a totally different beast their signature lies somewhere between the Fisher Faa 002 and the DT880, but more refined than those, it uses a BIG 53mm driver, a 53 mm driver has almost twice the areal that a 40mm driver has, I do not know if it is the bigger drivers or just the driver itself (not the size) but they do something special for me and at that price they are a nobrainer..
 
We had a meet last weekend and the things people was noticing was the STAX 009, hifiman801, HE500 and takstar 2050, it is NOT in the leauge af the STAX or HE500, but it is a nice company to be in..
 
Hunting good and cheap headphones is a hobby I really enjoy, I buy some really bad phones at times, but once in a while I hit the jackpot..
But the 2050 needs other pads to my ears as the velour ones are not helping them deliver good bass, I use the lovely leatherpads from the Fisher faa002, the pads from the Philips HP1000 are also nice, also the ones from AKG 240 works fine, but has a fit problem..
 
Before you ask, yes I am a madman, with a big box of pads, almost none of my phones are using their original pads, which sometimes makes me wonder if the companies just slap on some random pad that fits in color ??
Padswapping is fun and can really surprice..
 
Sorry for going OT..

 

[average_joe]

 
Quote:

I use the "Normal" firmware, the BA version (you kindly sent me) makes it "lifeless" in lack of better words, The HiFimen gets a lot of hype on our Danish forum, but they are not my taste, I have only heard the 601 so can not comment on the other models, but the look and feel of the hifimen are also close to make me vomit, a player at that price should be easier to use and be made of a better platictype and those two things really puts me off the hifimen... Others might feel different.
 
The reshelling of the q-JAYS was a special thing, I do not think he does that very often or at all..
 
I treat mine like they cost 10$, to me they are a "tool" I use at work, I sometimes put them in the nice case that comes with it, but mostly they are just put in my bag..
 
The switch I do when I get home is mostly because I use the SE for 10-12 hours a day and like to get a different presentation when I am at home, also having a kid makes the use of IEMs a bit cumbersome at home, as I need to be able to hear what that little rugrat is up to lol..
 
The 2050 is a totally different beast their signature lies somewhere between the Fisher Faa 002 and the DT880, but more refined than those, it uses a BIG 53mm driver, a 53 mm driver has almost twice the areal that a 40mm driver has, I do not know if it is the bigger drivers or just the driver itself (not the size) but they do something special for me and at that price they are a nobrainer..
 
We had a meet last weekend and the things people was noticing was the STAX 009, hifiman801, HE500 and takstar 2050, it is NOT in the leauge af the STAX or HE500, but it is a nice company to be in..
 
Hunting good and cheap headphones is a hobby I really enjoy, I buy some really bad phones at times, but once in a while I hit the jackpot..
But the 2050 needs other pads to my ears as the velour ones are not helping them deliver good bass, I use the lovely leatherpads from the Fisher faa002, the pads from the Philips HP1000 are also nice, also the ones from AKG 240 works fine, but has a fit problem..
 
Before you ask, yes I am a madman, with a big box of pads, almost none of my phones are using their original pads, which sometimes makes me wonder if the companies just slap on some random pad that fits in color ??
Padswapping is fun and can really surprice..
 
Sorry for going OT..

 
Thanks for the information Claus, good stuff.  I can imagine your box of pads as I have boxes of stuff all over the place and a cabinet filled half filled with custom IEM stuff!  Good thing they are small!
 
With the Studio, I had hiss issues so I changed the firmware to the BA firmware and did find it lifeless.  As far as the 801, there is good and bad with the player.  The good is there is actually better imaging than with my more expensive Anedio D1 and some tracks/custom IEMs, but there is less clarity due to the thicker presentation, although the GAME card makes a very big difference in a positive way!  If you have heard the 801 without the GAME card, you are missing the full potential.  At some point in the future I plan on A/Bing with the balanced card for the 801 as I have cables coming for that purpose.
 
Yea, I didn't think he did reshells as he is a great artist and what great artist would want to copy someone else's painting?
 
Got ya on the at home thing, and as far as the hobby, that is part of the reason I have tried so many custom IEMs that aren't the head-fi standards.  And I have found plenty of exceptional products including the SE 5-way!

 

[Jazzyfi]

I just got the SE5 today after some months of waiting and solving payment. One thing to say about this thing: WOW! Its been a while since I'm very pleased with what I hear.