[Whazzzup]

I'm interested in the antipodes ds GT it's probably at the max I want to spend, the dx is nice but.... how has this roon core system sound visa vie an iMac, positive impressions?

 

[DocSkeekmo]

Question for Romaz and those running 1/4" headphones straight off of DAVE....

Do you find that the internal headphone amp in the DAVE is sufficient in quality and power to properly supply your headphones? Or are most of you using an external headphone amp? If so, what amp are you using?

 

[stvc]

I would say depend on which headphone ...

 

[TheAttorney]

Regarding DAVE’s headphone output. There are broadly two opposing camps on this topic:

1. Dave’s direct output, by definition, simply cannot be beaten for transparency. It’s technically impossible for that to happen! Any external amp, no matter how wonderful or expensive, simply must add a level of colouration that reduces that transparency. Anyone who prefers an external amp is merely preferring some euphonic colouration that helps mask issues with the headphone (or other parts of the system). DAVE has an unerring ability to point out the strengths and weaknesses of each headphone – there is no hiding place, so you may not always like what you hear.
   
   
2. I know the theory, but my external amp just sounds better to me – and it’s not just some euphonic colouration, it’s simply better. So please don’t lecture me on what is or isn’t impossible.

After living with DAVE’s direct output for around a year, and at different times briefly trying 3 highly regarded and expensive external headphone amps, I mostly fall into the first camp, but I’m open minded enough to allow for the possibility that something else may be going on that transcends the theory, which could make an external amp sound genuinely better. However, as a key factor in me choosing DAVE was my desire to downsize and declutter my hifi system, I’ve made it my goal that my chosen dynamics headphones MUST sound best via DAVE’s direct output, so I haven't tried that hard to find a better external amp. And my chosen headphones were the Hifiman HEK V2’s, that for me beat all dynamics rivals on SQ (not on build quality), and which also benefit greatly IMO from DAVE’s cross-feed feature.

Regarding power handling: I listen at moderate levels (typically mid 70s db, rarely rising above mid 80s db), and have found DAVE has no problem at all driving any headphones I’ve tried, including the two notorious power-hungry ones: Hifiman HE-6 and AKG K1000. Also had no problem at all with Abyss and LCD-4. With all of these headphones, the volume setting on DAVE stayed below 0db (where max volume available, from memory, is somewhere around +14db). Of course, some headfiers do listen at much louder volumes than me, so their mileage will vary on this point.

PS. Romaz has taken a break from forums for an unspecified length of time. But from earlier posts, he’s firmly in the first camp.

 

[stvc]

I find LCD 4, Susvara should go with amplifier, Abyss is fine with Dave. Just my 2 cent.

 

[Whazzzup]

I use gsx mk2 it will offer balanced out from TT or Dave enough power for any headphone, the beaut for us chord users is it really does get out of the way, real wire and gain system, you will hardly notice it's there, a real complement to head amp design.

Now back to antipodes ds GT? Any feedback?

 

[TheAttorney]

I'm also interested in any Antipodes DS GT feedback, On the basis that it may be possible to buy it without its external power supply.
I have Paul Hynes SR7 p/s on the way, so am wondering if that powering a DS GT would equal or improve upon its bigger brother DX V2 (which has a built-in p/s)..

 

[Whazzzup]

I'm certainly not competing with this thread but I have started a what's the best desktop player server thread? I guess I established a budget at the ds GT level but price aside? Or is this just ornaments for discretionary spenders. If I get antipodes which my preliminary research suggest is very good choice, I spoke direct to various audio experts in my country, and I get one I will start an antipodes thread, but for now we are trying to sort this concept out. Either way I have subscribed to both threads so input away.

https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/best-desktop-player-server-for-your-dac-not-a-computer.851997/

 

[Articnoise]

OT

If the transparency is only the sum of measured noise taken with no real music or real load, yes it could be so. But if that’s true no tube amps or other amps that measures so so would be used for any transparent SOTA systems, and no pre amps. Not for driving headphones like Stax or HE1 and certainly not to drive very sensitive horn speakers like Avantgarde. I could go on….

The idea to use one amplifier stage for smaller signals and another, beefier one, for the output is commonly used in higher end audio and normally preferred by most.

Test: take a mediocre pre amp and par it with a good power amp with adjustable gain. Adjust the gain and volume so the pre amp do less amplifying and most is done by the power amp. Then compare to pre at high volume with less gain on the power amp - listen.

 

[DocSkeekmo]

In my 2 channel stereo reality, I have tried several DAC direct to amp opportunities and ALWAYS preferred a pre-amp in between. I guess my experience tells me that using the DAC as a direct driver for my headphones vs. using an external amp should yield similar results. But with the insanely low current demands of headphones I'm not sure that applies the same way. That's why I asked. I can see using a balanced amp to get balanced outputs as many feel it gives better sound to the headphones..... I would
Imagine different ears will yield different results.

Regarding the Antipodes DX Gen 2 compared to the Aurender N10, round 1 went to the N10. The DXG2 only has about 80 hours on it and needs more burn in. And I was using Roon as the music server. Some say HQ Player controlled with Room offers better sound. So I'm going to try that as well. The N10 was simply more correct, more accurate, wider and deeper soundstage and more depth and complexity; it was an easy win. But I think the DXG2 needs more burn in, and more care in choosing the proper software and controls to set it up.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[TheAttorney]

This thread has been quite a journey, with all sorts of twists and turns (a bit like Doc's DAC thread on the other site):

Romaz starts it off by finding that server differences are important, and rating the N10 highly, but saying the similarly priced CAD CAT betters it (by a small margin).
Then later finds that going the NAA route with a microRendu in the chain results in the server not being that important any more, with mR + any cheapo PC beating all previous dedicated servers.
Then later gets significant further improvement by direct bridging the mR path, and at the same time resulting in server differences being important again
And further improvement going to SMS-200.
Then much further improvements with multiple super clocks (and at this point I and I think some others are thinking that this proliferation of little boxes is getting way out of hand).
And now Doc rating the N10 above the highly regarded DX2.

Hard to know what to make of it all, but I'd be interested if Doc would now compared his N10 against any NAA-type solution, using either a mR or SMS-200.
Because if we accept romaz's progression, then theoretically any old PC, connected in bridged mode to say an SMS-200 Ultra (with good p/s and Roon Ready or HQP NAA) should wipe the floor with the N10, and at a fraction of the price.

 

[Whazzzup]

Darn it, (sarcasm) I went the antipodes route before the n10 declaration. Egads, but it looks like the n is beyond my price point anyway and ds GT is it. Black to boot to match my other gear, coming from down under, so it will be a few weeks. As is Dave, beyound my pp, I'm TT with that gastly external wire and gain amp. Call me a confused audiophile light then, I can take it.

 

[TheAttorney]

Darn it, (sarcasm) I went the antipodes route before the n10 declaration..

Don't feel too bad because you've still got the option of adding NAA in the future to your DS GT - when you get the funds and inclination. And further upgrade the power supply when you get the funds and inclination. Neither of these upgrade options are available for the N10, which is definitely for those whose inclination is to resolutely stick with a single box.

 

[Golfnutz]

This thread has been quite a journey, with all sorts of twists and turns (a bit like Doc's DAC thread on the other site):

Romaz starts it off by finding that server differences are important, and rating the N10 highly, but saying the similarly priced CAD CAT betters it (by a small margin).
Then later finds that going the NAA route with a microRendu in the chain results in the server not being that important any more, with mR + any cheapo PC beating all previous dedicated servers.
Then later gets significant further improvement by direct bridging the mR path, and at the same time resulting in server differences being important again
And further improvement going to SMS-200.
Then much further improvements with multiple super clocks (and at this point I and I think some others are thinking that this proliferation of little boxes is getting way out of hand).
And now Doc rating the N10 above the highly regarded DX2.

Hard to know what to make of it all, but I'd be interested if Doc would now compared his N10 against any NAA-type solution, using either a mR or SMS-200.
Because if we accept romaz's progression, then theoretically any old PC, connected in bridged mode to say an SMS-200 Ultra (with good p/s and Roon Ready or HQP NAA) should wipe the floor with the N10, and at a fraction of the price.

Not sure about any 'old PC'. Last I read on the other site was him looking into embedded computing. Basically, a balance between very low power consumption with enough CPU to run his music software.
He posted some impressions using a DFI motherboard with Celeron 3160 CPU. I believe the system was powered by an external LPS, with an addition LPS for his SSD drive.
A poor man's equivalent would be something like this - http://www.jetwaycomputer.com/JBC323U591.html (replacing stock power supply with LPS).

 

[Articnoise]

In my 2 channel stereo reality, I have tried several DAC direct to amp opportunities and ALWAYS preferred a pre-amp in between. I guess my experience tells me that using the DAC as a direct driver for my headphones vs. using an external amp should yield similar results. But with the insanely low current demands of headphones I'm not sure that applies the same way. That's why I asked. I can see using a balanced amp to get balanced outputs as many feel it gives better sound to the headphones..... I would
Imagine different ears will yield different results.

Regarding the Antipodes DX Gen 2 compared to the Aurender N10, round 1 went to the N10. The DXG2 only has about 80 hours on it and needs more burn in. And I was using Roon as the music server. Some say HQ Player controlled with Room offers better sound. So I'm going to try that as well. The N10 was simply more correct, more accurate, wider and deeper soundstage and more depth and complexity; it was an easy win. But I think the DXG2 needs more burn in, and more care in choosing the proper software and controls to set it up.

I'll keep you posted.

If I preferred a pre-amp or direct to power amp depends on the audio system, but with no budget limits for IC, power cord an pre amp, the best system I have heard has all used a pre amp.

I believe the current demands of many planar headphones is as high as or higher than most pre amps.

Arender’s top streamers are really good. I have not have any of them at home to directly compare to my mR, but I would be surprised if Aurender N10 wasn’t a bit better.