REVIEW: Comparison of 5 High End Digital Music Servers - Aurender N10, CAD CAT server, TotalDac d1-Server, Auralic Aries, Audiophile Vortex Box
Jun 16, 2017 at 2:10 PM Post #901 of 1,486
Dunno guys. My hunch is USB stinks, and any way to get rid of it is the path to better SQ. USB is a hot wire of noise and pathway of PC hash that kills the music. Quite possibly a music server with ethernet or AES wins right there.
 
Jun 16, 2017 at 2:16 PM Post #902 of 1,486
Dunno guys. My hunch is USB stinks, and any way to get rid of it is the path to better SQ. USB is a hot wire of noise and pathway of PC hash that kills the music. Quite possibly a music server with ethernet or AES wins right there.

Interesting.... chin scratch, I always liked USB, so does my galvanic input into TT, quiet ssd, bit perfect, audioquest diamond USB cable, what more do those bites want, they already are sliding like sound proof pods on silk sheets.
 
Jun 16, 2017 at 3:01 PM Post #903 of 1,486
My findings are preliminary. I am fanatical about burn in; and the DX wasn't close to my perfunctory 750 mandatory hours. And I'm also trying to figure out which software gets the best sound from the Antipodes in my system. So I will hold my final decision for now. I was just posting early findings....

Regarding the SMS and mR, I have been very tempted. I think the SMS-200ultra has the capacity to reclock and improve upon most systems whether using a computer or dedicated server. I might buy one either way. My incoming DAC is insanely high end and has reclocking at every stage, so I'm not sure if it will make a difference here. I will report abbreviated findings here and full findings on my DAC thread.

Also, for those interested... please PM me if interested in a brand new NIB Chord DAVE. With my Davinci LH2 incoming (and a Chord Hugo 2 for my can) I just don't need it. Price is crazy good for a brand new one. Full warranty.
 
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Jun 16, 2017 at 3:03 PM Post #904 of 1,486
Interesting.... chin scratch, I always liked USB, so does my galvanic input into TT, quiet ssd, bit perfect, audioquest diamond USB cable, what more do those bites want, they already are sliding like sound proof pods on silk sheets.
There are opposing camps on that. I have heard the Baetis server ($15k) which has a specially designed board to output AES. It's very good. But I think just like anything else, the success of whatever method you use is dependent on how it's implemented. I have heard USB done mind blowingly well!!!!
 
Jun 17, 2017 at 12:12 PM Post #905 of 1,486
Not sure about any 'old PC'. Last I read on the other site was him [romaz] looking into embedded computing.

On reflection, my comment about "any old PC" was a bit flippant, so let me explain further:

Firstly. when romaz first came across his mR, he dropped his expensive all-in-one servers because he found he could get a better sound with an mR plus any server/PC that he had to hand, which from memory did include something like a Mac Mini. Since then, especally after he discovered the direct bridge method (which in effect takes the router out of the signal path) he went through many discoveries which showed that the source could be considerably further improved. But those improvements didn't contradict his earlier point that mR + cheapo server/PC sounded better than his previous best expensive all-in-one server. It's just that further tweaking has increased the margin of improvement.

Secondly, in my own much more modest experience, I did briefly compare my mR + absolutely normal Windows 10 Dell XPS13 laptop against a full size Aurender (fairly certain it was a W20) directly connected to DAVE via a £1k USB cable. Aurender was streaming Tidal vs the same albums ripped from CD on my laptop,
I'm not claiming this was in any way a full and thorough comparison, but to my own satisfaction the differences were fairly subtle, but also immediately obvious after just a few seconds:: My laptop had greater clarity and dynamics, and the Aurender was slightly softer, smoother, easier on the ear. Both had their merits and the differences weren't huge, but if I had to choose one over the other irrespective of cost, I would have chosen my mR+laptop, although ideally I would have had a combination of both, as the Aurender was kinder to poor recordings (which could come over a touch brash with my laptop).

At the time, from memory I was still using HQP and I also had free Fidelizer. Very importantly, my laptop ran on its internal battery - SQ dropped if connected to mains.
Since then, a few small tweaks have further incrementally improved my source: Upgrading to Fidelizer Pro; adding Process Lasso; replacing the LPS1 stock DC power cable with a short silver one; and last but not least getting the direct bridge method to work. So I feel that the earlier slight brashness has reduced since that comparison (and completely eliminated when I upgraded my HEK V2's cable, but that's another story).

So yes, I really did mean any old PC, but one that still needs to be tweaked in the usual audiophile/audiophool way. I still expect a dedicated server to ultimately be both better SQ and certainly easier to maintain, which is why I'm still following this thread. It's just that, based on my experience so far, the chosen server MUST have the option of a NAA solution, it MUST be able to run Roon, and it MUST be able to be powered by my incoming Paul Hynes SR7 power supply. I remain open minded enough to still consider an all-in-one solution that has none of these things, but it's going to have to prove itself first. Ultimately, all else being equal, I love the simplicity of an all-in-one server, but as romaz would say: I can't un-hear what I've already heard.
 
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Jun 17, 2017 at 4:25 PM Post #906 of 1,486
On reflection, my comment about "any old PC" was a bit flippant, so let me explain further:

Firstly. when romaz first came across his mR, he dropped his expensive all-in-one servers because he found he could get a better sound with an mR plus any server/PC that he had to hand, which from memory did include something like a Mac Mini. Since then, especally after he discovered the direct bridge method (which in effect takes the router out of the signal path) he went through many discoveries which showed that the source could be considerably further improved. But those improvements didn't contradict his earlier point that mR + cheapo server/PC sounded better than his previous best expensive all-in-one server. It's just that further tweaking has increased the margin of improvement.

Secondly, in my own much more modest experience, I did briefly compare my mR + absolutely normal Windows 10 Dell XPS13 laptop against a full size Aurender (fairly certain it was a W20) directly connected to DAVE via a £1k USB cable. Aurender was streaming Tidal vs the same albums ripped from CD on my laptop,
I'm not claiming this was in any way a full and thorough comparison, but to my own satisfaction the differences were fairly subtle, but also immediately obvious after just a few seconds:: My laptop had greater clarity and dynamics, and the Aurender was slightly softer, smoother, easier on the ear. Both had their merits and the differences weren't huge, but if I had to choose one over the other irrespective of cost, I would have chosen my mR+laptop, although ideally I would have had a combination of both, as the Aurender was kinder to poor recordings (which could come over a touch brash with my laptop).

At the time, from memory I was still using HQ and I also had free Fidelizer. Very importantly, my laptop ran on its internal battery - SQ dropped if connected to mains.
Since then, a few small tweaks have further incrementally improved my source: Upgrading to Fidelizer Pro; adding Process Lasso; replacing the LPS1 stock DC power cable with a short silver one; and last but not least getting the direct bridge method to work. So I feel that the earlier slight brashness has reduced since that comparison (and completely eliminated when I upgraded my HEK V2's cable, but that's another story).

So yes, I really did mean any old PC, but one that still needs to be tweaked in the usual audiophile/audiophool way. I still expect a dedicated server to ultimately be both better SQ and certainly easier to maintain, which is why I'm still following this thread. It's just that, based on my experience so far, the chosen server MUST have the option of a NAA solution, it MUST be able to run Roon, and it MUST be able to be powered by my incoming Paul Hynes SR7 power supply. I remain open minded enough to still consider an all-in-one solution that has none of these things, but it's going to have to prove itself first. Ultimately, all else being equal, I love the simplicity of an all-in-one server, but as romaz would say: I can't un-hear what I've already heard.

Thank You Attorney, that puts it into a much better perspective from the way I initially read your previous comments.

Edited to include Romaz comments from CA. This is strictly information only.

Partial Post:

"First, this DFI SoC motherboard with its 6W Celeron, even with stock clocks, is wonderful. Powered by my SR7 and using my X25-E as my OS drive and connected via my Pachanko SATA Reference cable, I was very pleased. The presentation has a calm, unstressed, smooth and effortless quality to it and compared against my Mac Mini with PCIe SSD + W2012R2 + AO, I easily preferred this new motherboard (even without AO) because it didn't have that fatiguing high frequency glare that I attribute to the Mac Mini's PCIe SSD. Compared against my other Mac Mini with Mac OS on an SD card, it was a much closer call and I could be happy with either although the PC route has far greater potential since AO wasn't even installed yet.

Once the Adnaco was added, things definitely tilted in favor of this new motherboard. Tonal richness and clarity improved. The sound carried more weight and sounded more dynamic. Sound stage and air stayed about the same, however".
 
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Jun 18, 2017 at 5:43 AM Post #907 of 1,486
I think it’s important to take into consideration which input one will use on the DAC. Before I got the mR I used a JCAT USB board to stream from my computer to my DDC. The JCAT USB board was a substantial upgrade to the computer’s normal USB. With a dedicated PSU powering the JCAT USB board and SSD the SQ got little better, more relaxed and refined.

I got the mR and used it as a network adopter between my computer and my DDC. With the Ifi PSU the difference in SQ was there, but not as big as I have read other saying. With a MCRU PSU the difference between the JCAT USB board + PSU and the mR + PSU increased.

Still, no matter if I stream directly from the computer’s built-in USB or use a special USB board like the one from JCAT, or the mR, I always seems to prefer to use a DDC to do the final re-clock to coaxial before the signal is sent to the DAC. So I think it’s correct for me to say that I only use the mR as an NAA to output from my computer, and as an NAA it does really well and bettering the other solutions I have tried (including CD spinners).

I started by saying that I think it’s important to take into consideration which input one will use on the DAC. The people that stream direct from a computer to a DAC’s USB input seems (to me) to be a bit more in favor of the mR than the ones that prefer to use another type of input than USB. I use the mR together with a DDC and the result is great (at least if all gear are feed quality power, descent computer and matching cables). But I also suspect that a quality all in one streamer and DDC will fit my ears and system better than people that prefer to use the USB input in their DACs.

So with my experience in mind I wouldn’t be surprised if Aurender N10 was a bit better than just a mR for DACs that sounds a bit better with SPIDF/AES coaxial. Better than a mR + good DDC, that’s the question I like to know the answer to.
 
Jun 18, 2017 at 7:14 AM Post #908 of 1,486
Just a thought:

Based on what I heard at MUNICH during my intensive listening tests of the New Astell & Kern SP1000 which sounded wonderful and uber detailed, and on the fact that the new V2 of AK Connect iPAD is just released this week, I wonder if I would not consider this DAP as my home source also for my 2nd home. Either Digital out to my DAC or even XLR Analog to my Amp (using their special XLR connector).

I will confirm all this when I receive my SP1000 in July to try at home.

Capture d’écran 2017-06-18 à 11.09.39.png
 
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Jun 22, 2017 at 3:51 AM Post #909 of 1,486
DAPs are interesting options as sources since they're running Android, and then there's a music streaming service called MOOV that's only available on Android and iOS devices.

We could also void the warranty by replacing VCXO clocks inside SP1000 with SOtM sCLK-EX. Then power could come from one Uptone Audio LPS-1 @ 7V for sCLK-EX and then another one @ 3.3V to replace the 3.7V Li-Polymer Battery. Of course it's gonna be no longer portable.

However, there will be no love for Roon unless we could get the Android Remote app to be sideloaded or something

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-ready-dap/18498/51
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 6:12 AM Post #910 of 1,486
I guess this one could be good: JCAT NET Card FEMTO. At least if using mR/SOtM direct connected to a computer. Only problem I can’t use it with my NUC so I will need to use my full-size PC instead. Well it’s not a problem per se, as the SQ difference between NUC and full-size PC is not what big IME.

New types of solutions/equipment for fix and tricks to enhanced audio streaming is high right now :jecklinsmile:
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 6:23 AM Post #911 of 1,486
I can concur or suggest that antipodes ds GT server is spot on in set up, output, and interface via roon. I'm just getting into it after dropping my library on to it last night after seeing Mavis staples. It will take you there....granted cannot compare to other systems but versus I mac, stretch your credit card legs...
I have set up an antipodes audio thread for those of the cult, or those interested in sharing experiences, technical expertise, or general lurking. Cheers. Starts on pg 4.
https://www.head-fi.org/f/threads/a...n-the-rabbit-hole.851997/page-4#post-13569317
 
Jun 28, 2017 at 12:58 PM Post #912 of 1,486
I guess this one could be good: JCAT NET Card FEMTO. At least if using mR/SOtM direct connected to a computer. Only problem I can’t use it with my NUC so I will need to use my full-size PC instead. Well it’s not a problem per se, as the SQ difference between NUC and full-size PC is not what big IME.

New types of solutions/equipment for fix and tricks to enhanced audio streaming is high right now :jecklinsmile:

Is there a mini pcie express slot in your NUC? If so, you could run an adapter out 1X and hook up the usb audio card that way. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Express-PCI...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
 
Jun 29, 2017 at 4:18 AM Post #913 of 1,486
Is there a mini pcie express slot in your NUC? If so, you could run an adapter out 1X and hook up the usb audio card that way. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Express-PCI-E-to-Mini-PCI-E-1X-Extension-Cord-Adapter-Card-with-USB-Riser-Card/371779806638?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

I don’t think it has, but it doesn’t really matter to me because the SQ, graphic quality etc are already better in my (carefully put to getter) full-size PC than my fan less NUC with external LPS. If JCAT NET Card FEMTO will enhance SQ I don’t know, but am willing to try this or similar NET card and see.

I think the advantages of using mini PC and laptop for audio are a bit exaggerated to be honest. Sure they have their pros, but also its cons. To build small and still have a reasonable powerful computers many compromises has to be made. Placing all components (processor, ram, hard drive, mother board, switching regulators, clocks, inputs/outputs very, very close together means EMI, RFI etc will infect each other more than in a full- size box there they can be placed much further apart. Those components that are used are often of less capacity/quality, use more switching power internally to keep heat and power low, use much more non discreet components, thin cables and painted circuit boards, one PSU for powering all components etc etc.

That it’s even possible to get good or even great result from a NUC is fantastic and am not disputing that it’s possible to make a dedicated audio PC/server a bit better sounding than a full-size PC if done right.
 
Jun 29, 2017 at 6:00 AM Post #914 of 1,486
NUc is good, dedicated ssd from external source bypassing the computer completely using them, iPads, macs...as remotes only, is the way to go at present. USB the server to your dac, let the magic commence. Network the system bypass the mac, run direct from the server
 
Jun 29, 2017 at 8:01 AM Post #915 of 1,486
... USB the server to your dac, let the magic commence.

Have you tried a NAA or USB cleaner/regenerator device between your new server and DAC?

On that topic, I'm holding off from trying any of the new SOtM super-clocked Ultra devices for a while.
Partly to see how the multiple super clock experiments over at CA pan out. And partly because Sonore have finally broken cover and announced their own ultra upgrades to the microRendu at two levels: a simple board replacement that includes a new clock; and a big brother in larger enclosure that has new clock and more. Both of these are smaller, cheaper and simpler than the SOtm ultra devices. Whether they (maybe in conjunction with an ISO Regen) sound better or worse than their SOtM rivals to be seen.
 

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