[svyr]

For completeness' sake : these sound about the same with NFB-10WM compared to D100 (and they're about the only HP I own that don't hiss on 10WM ). Maybe slightly more bass, and definitely less prominent highs on the 10WM. I initially thought they sounded good, but unfortunately the mids hump lead to extreme listening fatigue within 10-20 minutes and had to EQ the mids down severely similar to the first chart I posted ...

I still feel ear-raped mids over-indulgence costs...

 

[kkl10]

R-Audiohead, I see that you got the Shure SRH940.
Will be interesting to see how you mirror the experience that joelpearce had with the SRH840 vs SP-1.
Good listening!
 
The GMP 400 with the stock earpads of the GMP 450 Pro has a surprisingly linear frequency response!
It's the darker and smoother sounding configuration (without doublepadding) but the better sounding to my ears due to the very linear frequency response in the midrange and treble, the bass response is quite a bit more...
Smooth, coherent, realistic and non fatiguing sound, I like it a lot!
 
The GMP 400 configuration sounds very much like the opened GMP 450 Pro I tried before, but the small felt disk glued in between the foams inside the earcups adds some coherency to the sound...

 

[R-Audiohead]

Interesting.
 
I'm learning more and more that the SP-1 has a very forward midrange, which for me brings the vocals to a level I really enjoy.
 
There will certainly be some comparisons to draw between the Shure and SP-1, although I would be surprised if the 840 has a similar sonic character to the 940.  Both headphones favor detail over "rich", that's for certain.
 
More on this in a week(s) or so.
 
I must say, the versatility you have brought to your GMP is quite handy I'm sure!  You basically have numerous headphones in one and it sounds like the driver is quite sensitive to enclosure modifications, as that has been my experience between the QP400 and SP-1 as well.

 

[kkl10]

 
Add to that the possibilities brought by equalization and I guess I'm fortunate enough to say that I feel no need nor desire to acquire any other headphone.
 
Quote:

 
I must say, the versatility you have brought to your GMP is quite handy I'm sure!  You basically have numerous headphones in one and it sounds like the driver is quite sensitive to enclosure modifications, as that has been my experience between the QP400 and SP-1 as well.

Headfonia's review is out... very intriguing, weird and interesting impressions of the sound signature of the GMP's...
The GMP 450 Pro v-shaped?...
'NOTES ON TECHNICALITIES' worries me a bit...
 
What do you guys think?
 
I see now that the felt layer on the driver assembly of the GMP 400 has a bigger opening than on the GMP 450 Pro... I didn't know that...
 

 

[R-Audiohead]

The reviewer seems to think the GMP 450 PRO is a little more v-shaped in comparison to the GMP 400, but still thinks the entire line is very flat, as he mentions
 
"The Trio German Maestros sound like nothing I’ve ever heard before, and quite a radical shift from the GMP 8.35D. The basic signature is mostly neutral. No low end boost and laid back sound like on the Senns. No crisp and dry voicing like the Beyers. No forward sound like the Grados. The sound is uniquely German Maestro. The GMP 400 perhaps qualifies as the most straight-line ruler neutral of the bunch, with the GMP 450 being slightly v-shaped and the GMP 435S being warmer and slightly darker."
 
Honestly though, if the 450 PRO sounds v-shaped compared to the other two, there must be some massive midranges going on in the others.  I think I might have to disagree with him a bit here, because the lows certainly are not emphasized in my SP-1s and the high end roll off is a little sooner than my newly obtained Shures.
 
Being familiar with Quart/Maestro sound from many different categories of audio, I will say that I agree with him when he says it is a unique sound signature that targets "ruler flat" or neutral.  Most MB Quart stuff I am familiar with is that way

 

[R-Audiohead]

The reviewer clearly didn't spend enough time with these...
 
"Although the overall sound is relatively forward, the pace and the dynamics are somehow very slow"
 
To me this driver is extremely fast and sensitive to changes in dynamics.  The speed of my SP-1 has been one of the more impressive aspects of the sound... the decay and recovery is fast.
 
He mentions the dull attacks on the notes as "rubbery".  This is something I may think about.  The high level of detail the SP-1 offers may be a result of controlling such attacks... in a effort to help the decay of the note and essentially make it less "rich" and more accurate at specifically the point of decay.
 
I have some listening to do and the SRH-940 will serve as a great comparison over my previous (only other) headphone, the Senn HD 448.  The Shure is closer to the SP-1's league.

 

[R-Audiohead]

Sorry for separating this into three posts... I posted thoughts as I read.
 
The reviewer claimed the Beyers to be high in detail, and one of the better uses as a studio monitor?
Okay, MANY head-fiers agree Beyers carry a distinct U (or V) character to them and if they have any weakness at all it is the presence of the midranges.  I hardly find that ideal for monitoring when accuracy and a flat response is of most importance.  My experience with Beyer has only been limited to the DT770 at this point in time, but I feel my thoughts are consistent with what many others think about Beyer... big, spacious sound, rich and big lows, emphasized highs and a sacrificed midrange.
 
I'm disagreeing with the reviewer for a lot of this...

 

[Tiemen]

Quote:

 
Add to that the possibilities brought by equalization and I guess I'm fortunate enough to say that I feel no need nor desire to acquire any other headphone.
 

Headfonia's review is out... very intriguing, weird and interesting impressions of the sound signature of the GMP's...
The GMP 450 Pro v-shaped?...
'NOTES ON TECHNICALITIES' worries me a bit...
 
What do you guys think?
 
I see now that the felt layer on the driver assembly of the GMP 400 has a bigger opening than on the GMP 450 Pro... I didn't know that...
 

It comfirms that the best GMP for music listening is also the most overlooked: the GMP250.
 
 

 

[svyr]

The reviewer seems to think the GMP 450 PRO is a little more v-shaped in comparison to the GMP 400, but still thinks the entire line is very flat, as he mentions
 
"The Trio German Maestros sound like nothing I’ve ever heard before, and quite a radical shift from the GMP 8.35D. The basic signature is mostly neutral. No low end boost and laid back sound like on the Senns. No crisp and dry voicing like the Beyers. No forward sound like the Grados. The sound is uniquely German Maestro. The GMP 400 perhaps qualifies as the most straight-line ruler neutral of the bunch, with the GMP 450 being slightly v-shaped and the GMP 435S being warmer and slightly darker."
 
Honestly though, if the 450 PRO sounds v-shaped compared to the other two, there must be some massive midranges going on in the others.  I think I might have to disagree with him a bit here, because the lows certainly are not emphasized in my SP-1s and the high end roll off is a little sooner than my newly obtained Shures.
 
Being familiar with Quart/Maestro sound from many different categories of audio, I will say that I agree with him when he says it is a unique sound signature that targets "ruler flat" or neutral.  Most MB Quart stuff I am familiar with is that way

yea that's absolute rubbish about GMP450pro being v-shaped. Then again, he's comparing to the other two.

 

[kkl10]

 
Quote:

The reviewer seems to think the GMP 450 PRO is a little more v-shaped in comparison to the GMP 400, but still thinks the entire line is very flat, as he mentions
 
"The Trio German Maestros sound like nothing I’ve ever heard before, and quite a radical shift from the GMP 8.35D. The basic signature is mostly neutral. No low end boost and laid back sound like on the Senns. No crisp and dry voicing like the Beyers. No forward sound like the Grados. The sound is uniquely German Maestro. The GMP 400 perhaps qualifies as the most straight-line ruler neutral of the bunch, with the GMP 450 being slightly v-shaped and the GMP 435S being warmer and slightly darker."
 
Honestly though, if the 450 PRO sounds v-shaped compared to the other two, there must be some massive midranges going on in the others.  I think I might have to disagree with him a bit here, because the lows certainly are not emphasized in my SP-1s and the high end roll off is a little sooner than my newly obtained Shures.
 
 

Having first hand experience with both GMP 400 and 450 Pro I also disagree with the reviewer as we are clearly hearing very different things (with stock earpads):
to my ears the 450 Pro is clearly midcentric with a recessed bass while the 400 has much more bass output with a less forward, more balanced midrange.
The GMP 400's treble is a bit recessed agains't the GMP 450 Pro...
 
To say which one is the more neutral is very difficult to me, the GMP 450 Pro is to midcentric (far from v-shaped) and the GMP 400 is to bassy... but since the GMP 450 Pro has a smoother, less peaked frequency response (will need to check this again) I'll give it the edge on this one.
 
I agree, however, with the reviewer's assesment about the GMP 400 with the GMP 450 Pro earpads:
 
'Replacing that pads with the synthetic leather pads from the GMP 450 PRO tones down the treble levels, smooths out the dryness, and makes the midrange a little fuller sounding.'
 
 
Quote:

The reviewer clearly didn't spend enough time with these...
 
"Although the overall sound is relatively forward, the pace and the dynamics are somehow very slow"
 
To me this driver is extremely fast and sensitive to changes in dynamics.  The speed of my SP-1 has been one of the more impressive aspects of the sound... the decay and recovery is fast.
 
He mentions the dull attacks on the notes as "rubbery".  This is something I may think about.  The high level of detail the SP-1 offers may be a result of controlling such attacks... in a effort to help the decay of the note and essentially make it less "rich" and more accurate at specifically the point of decay.
 
I have some listening to do and the SRH-940 will serve as a great comparison over my previous (only other) headphone, the Senn HD 448.  The Shure is closer to the SP-1's league.

I thought of something like that to, a fast driver would be able to control such attacks to the point of removing a presumably satisfying but inaccurate snap to more truly portray'em...
But I have no legitimacy to stand by this idea and it's not clear that the reviewer think of this has the case.
It's not clear if the reviewer think of these headphones as very slow or extremelly fast:
 
'Well, the Trio Maestros here may be the first set of headphones that would qualify for the phrase “negative PRaT”. I know this may be a difficult concept to grasp, as again I have never encountered other headphones with this sort of a signature, because even the famed thin-sounding Etymotics ER4 and the Stax Lambdas don’t do this.
 
Another thing that I hear is how the attack on the notes seem to be made dull, intentionally.'
 
Here the reviewer compares the GMP's with two examples of transducers famous for their speed not sloppiness, and only with a fast transducer it is possible to 'intentionally' smooth out the edge of attacks. A slow transducer just can't afford to do so.
 
But then there's this:
 
'Although the overall sound is relatively forward, the pace and the dynamics are somehow very slow. It’s all in line with the “negative PRaT” and dull attack I mentioned earlier.'
 
and 'NOTES ON TECHNICALITIES'
 
I guess he thinks of them as very slow indeed.
It makes me think that he didn't spend enough time with these headphones and he might had some fit issues to... the sonic characteristics of these headphones are very sensitive to fit and seal, at least to my ears.
 
One interesting thing I'm noting when comparing my equalized vs non equalized headphones is that the attack on the notes when equalized is actually less edgy and sloppy and kind of more textured, defined, it almost feels smoother, feels right to say that it gains a rubbery quality.
It is very noticeable with drums and cymbals.
 
So maybe what the reviewer qualified as "negative prat" and dull attack is also due to a flatter FR of the GMPs compared to other headphones and not just driver resolution?
 
 
 

 

[R-Audiohead]

Agreed.  I think it is difficult to assume it is an issue with the driver resolution.  I know I may not have the specific technicalities to back this up empirically, but I do not think it would be entirely irrational to assume the driver behind the GMP trio is of high quality, and I know to my ears at least the detail is a high point of the GM sound.
 
The fact that he compares the GMP to those very fast models early in the write up and then later mentions the GMP to be slow I think is just another piece of evidence that he just didn't spend enough time with these, given that those two aforementioned conclusions are a standard contradiction.
 
There is no way the GMP 450 PRO is v-shaped if it sounds anything like my SP-1.  He even mentions in the write up that the bass is not hard hitting, but more of a tonal presence yet never drown out... this certainly doesn't sound like the low end described in most other v-shaped cans (Beyer, Ultrasone).
 
I agree the GMP may flirt with "bass light", but I still think they are just above that line because to me, when they really need to, it seems like they can reach back and find some extra thump.  I'm finding there is very little I agree with about this write up and I'm getting the feeling I'm not alone (guess my ears aren't crazy!)
 
Another thought out of left field though: Maybe the GMPs are just a little picky with the amp they pair with?  You can't say this wouldn't necessarily surprise you, even if you wouldn't necessarily expect it.  This could even explain the deviations in experience between the three of us (svyr, kkl10, myself) and the drastic differences in opinion between the reviewer and ourselves.  Intuitively it would seem the GMP 450 would pair best with a solid state device, but who's to say it isn't picky about which kind, or if pairing with tubes is beneficial/detrimental?  When I am able to audition my friend's setup in a couple weeks (HD650 and Schiit Valhalla) I should be able to play around with some tubes on the SP-1.  I'm not suggesting this IS indeed the case, that the GMP 450 PRO is amp picky and that this is causing the differences in perception, but merely throwing it out there as a possibility.  For all I know the GMP 450 PRO is extremely the opposite, but I think it is certainly something to ponder.
 
I definitely am surprised German Maestro doesn't get a little more love around here on head-fi... but I guess marketing has its place and German Maestro/MB Quart has always seemed to be a "let the product do the talking" type.  Unfortunately that strategy only works for the enthusiast... which head-fi is full of.

 

[oqvist]

May just be the appearance as well? The German Maestros to me appear to be build to be comfortable, durable but they don´t spend any effort making them look cool or flashy. I suspect a lot of people buy products based on appearance as well? Certainly help with marketing if it looks cool. The boxing is similar low key. No extra frills which is cool. Not to say that fancy boxes and such are cool but not at this price segment
 
As for V-shaped no I could never ever in my mind find anything that on the 450 Pro. Bass light yes. 

 

[kkl10]

I just spent a couple of hours flattening out the FR of the stock GMP 400, here's the result: (still improvable)
 

 
My EQ curve for the GMP 450 Pro: (still improvable)
 

 
I think that these graphs speak for themselves, there's just no way that the GMP 450 Pro is v-shaped compared to the GMP 400.
 
Note that the same 20KHz boost on the GMP 450 Pro could also be applied on the GMP 400, but this was just a rough EQing just to show the fundamental differences in tonal balance between the two headphones.
 
Very interesting the improvements that this equalization brings to the GMP 400, a lot of information from the upper midrange to the treble was severelly masked by the bass, the bass which seems to be a lot more tighter and quicker after being toned down with equalization... more listening required to confirm this...
Separation, sense of space, imaging and tonal and timbral accuracy improved a lot!
 
Comparing the equalized GMP 450 Pro to non equalized:
A lot of high frequency noise and hiss is washed away, tone of instruments is less forward ( to me this is what gives the 450 Pro it's engaging character), more coherent and consistent timbre.
 
Comparing the equalized GMP 400 to non equalized:
A lot of bass bloatness and sloppiness is washed away, tone of instruments becomes more inteligible and accurate, more coherent and consistent timbre, sense of speed improves greatly.
 
On both headphones separation, sense of space, imaging also improve a lot.
On both headphones the sound is cleaner and the blackground is blacker.
 
Comparing non equalized GMP 450 Pro to non equalized GMP 400stock earpads)
The GMP 450 Pro has a much more forward tonal presentation than the GMP 400 but at the same time it seems to try to put a distance between me and the music as to make me analize it instead of feel it or enjoy it. It feels right to say that the GMP 450 Pro has a weightless tone compared to the GMP 400 because of the relativelly recessed bass...
On the GMP 400 although the music sounds much closer to me it's tonal perception is not as high as it is on the GMP 450 Pro probably because of the bass emphasys and a less linear response on the mids - upper mids. Compared to the weightless and forward tonal presentation of the 450 Pro the 400 has a duller tonal presentation, nothing like a weightless tone and the bass impact is clearly felt.
 
Don't know however how both fare agains't other headphones.
 
R-Audiohead, I'm looking forward to your impressions of the HD650 and the SP-1 (maybe the Shure to?) on the Schiit Asgard.
Good listening!

 

[punkplayer]

I guess the difference between QP400 and QP450 is similar to the difference between dt770 and dt880. The closed versions (qp400 and dt770s) are using a different earpads with the open versions. The velour skin of the earpads of dt770 covers a layer of leather, while there is no leather layer inside the earpads of dt880/dt990. The effect of the leather layer is significant, which brings a huge sense of bass and compressed soundstage. I guess it is the same structure with the original velour eapads of QP450, which makes the most different sound signature between QP400 and QP450. 

 

[svyr]

man I wish someone would buy me pair of GMP450 Pro .... Been FSing them for ages now