[gsferrari]

I think it is criminal for game developers to use a paying customer as a beta tester. I suspect many of them DONT have testers on the payroll...why should they? When a customer is prepared to accept a half baked product and do all the testing and reporting for free?

I think it is a criminal offense and must be taken more seriously than it is being taken now.

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

If the software is developed in Japan the Japanese gamers get hit with the issues before the games are localized, however if the game is developed in the US we'd get spanked with more buggy software than we are used to. Also against us consumers are the crazy timeframes some of these developers are forced to abide by. Publishers insist on products getting released before the developer is satisfied with them in many cases.

 

[socrates63]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiGHFLYiN9 Anyone here excited enough about the new Xbox 360 to reserve one?

I didn't think about reserving one until you mentioned it. I have about $180 in credit at EB Games -- I sold a PS2, PS1 and a few games last year.

Forget the games... I'm excited over the media extension capabilities. Instead of a full blown PC, I could plunk the Xbox 360 in the family room and stream videos. I haven't researched all the capabilities, but from what I've read, it looks promising.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by socrates63 Forget the games... I'm excited over the media extension capabilities. Instead of a full blown PC, I could plunk the Xbox 360 in the family room and stream videos. I haven't researched all the capabilities, but from what I've read, it looks promising.

Gimicks.

And I definitely think that you are generalizing Edwood. All the games I play run SEAMLESSLY and without ANY PROBLEM on my computer. If PC developers start using a centralized system, it will limit the expandability and the freedom developers have. Look at Steam - it's the biggest piece of crap program that I've ever used. If all games were like that, I'd kill myself! Luckily, Steam hasn't given me any trouble for a while... but it's a real infamous program. Once you start making standards, the quality goes down the drain.

Stability issues are hardly a problem when it comes to using a company-maintained server. Take Blizzard's battle.net, for example, which still hasn't plagued its games yet.

But if we start making limitations, everything else becomes crap. The reason why graphics are so poor on consoles vs. PCs is because the consoles are much cheaper, use cheaper parts, and the games are all developed only for one type of hardware on a console. There is no such thing as 8x anti aliasing on an Xbox.

One more thing I should point out is that consoles have their share of stability problems too. Take the PS2, for example - read errors all across the globe. The Xbox power chord causes houses to burn down. I have even seen people DROP OUT of Xbox Live games.

You're giving way too much credit to the console developers.

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman Gimicks. And I definitely think that you are generalizing Edwood. All the games I play run SEAMLESSLY and without ANY PROBLEM on my computer. If PC developers start using a centralized system, it will limit the expandability and the freedom developers have. Look at Steam - it's the biggest piece of crap program that I've ever used. If all games were like that, I'd kill myself! Luckily, Steam hasn't given me any trouble for a while... but it's a real infamous program. Once you start making standards, the quality goes down the drain.

I disagree. Without standards we have chaos and instability. One of the reasons for the rock solid stability of a console is that there is a SINGLE standard to program for. Not hundreds that the PC has.

ALL the games you play run SEAMLESSLY? Really? Did you have a complete stutter free Half-life 2 gaming experience when the game first came out? Or did you ignore HL2 and go straight to CS:Source?
You don't play Battlefield 2, I see. One helluva an addictive game, but it's so buggy it's barely playable most of the time (on ranked servers that is). Some people are impatient and are willing to pay to be a Beta tester (yes, I'm guilty), but I am really open to just waiting for developers to properly finish games before release.

Quote:

Stability issues are hardly a problem when it comes to using a company-maintained server. Take Blizzard's battle.net, for example, which still hasn't plagued its games yet.

Battle.net does not have to deal with the sheer bandwidth that first person shooters demand. EA has completely botched their Ranked Server system for Battlefield 2. Yet Microsoft's XBox Live's peer to peer gaming is so immediate and more playable than many of the dedicated server setups I've seen for many PC games.

Quote:

But if we start making limitations, everything else becomes crap. The reason why graphics are so poor on consoles vs. PCs is because the consoles are much cheaper, use cheaper parts, and the games are all developed only for one type of hardware on a console. There is no such thing as 8x anti aliasing on an Xbox.

The XBox is old hardware. We're talking about the upcoming XBox 360. Anti-aliasing will be a required minimum for games on the XBox 360, along with a standard resolution of 1280x720 for HDTV. If you have seen the XBox 360 graphics in person it would be easier to see that the next gen consoles are serious business. And how many current PC games can you play with 8x Anti-aliasing with all the high quality lighting, shaders, and effects on and with it never going below 30FPS? And I'm not talking only Counterstrike:Source.

I don't find the model of spending hundreds of dollars for every new PC game that comes out a sustainable business model for PC developers. PC gaming is falling behind in supporting display and audio tech. I just don't find the sense in spending over $1000 in PC hardware upgrades only to have it only work with cheap Multimedia speakers and small desktop monitors. (OK, the audio part is fine if I use my headphone rig). Although, having a $300 console hooked up to my multi-thousand dollar Home Theater setup is pretty lopsided too at the moment.

You look at it as "making limitations", but I look at it as setting proper Standards. Sure it's great to have a lot of choices, but it's what creates more opportunity for instability and incompatibility.

Quote:

One more thing I should point out is that consoles have their share of stability problems too. Take the PS2, for example - read errors all across the globe. The Xbox power chord causes houses to burn down. I have even seen people DROP OUT of Xbox Live games.

Bad example. This is an XBox 360 thread, not a Playstation thread. How many actual houses burned down due to defective power cords on the XBox? There was a proper recall and cords were replaced immediately. If you were to factor how many faulty PC components that have failed, you'd be buried in a huge pile of rubbish.

And for seeing people drop out of XBox Live games? 99.99% quit because they were losing. You were probably kicking their @sses. It is a very common phenomon in Halo 2 because people don't want to lose points in their score.


Quote:

You're giving way too much credit to the console developers.

Nope, I have not given them enough credit. Time will tell. XBox 360 is not here yet. When it is, we will all see for sure whether or not it lives up to the hype or not.

I really do hope that PC developers get their act together.

-Ed

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari I think it is criminal for game developers to use a paying customer as a beta tester. I suspect many of them DONT have testers on the payroll...why should they? When a customer is prepared to accept a half baked product and do all the testing and reporting for free? I think it is a criminal offense and must be taken more seriously than it is being taken now.

Believe me, they have plenty of testers. (some developers like Blizzard have an open Beta test for volunteers) They just get pushed by publishers (coughEAcough) to release the game unfinished. The reason that we don't see this with consoles with online capabilities like XBox and PS2 now, is that there is a single entity that makes standards for game release quality. e.g. Microsoft won't allow EA or other publishers to release a buggy unfinished game for the XBox. They'll just put more money and manpower into getting it released in time.

But if we keep buying the buggy games (yes, I'm guilty), publishers will keep doing this. They get the money earlier and spend less money on game debugging.

-Ed

 

[Bleed]

is it true though that the games for the next gen consoles are gonna be around $70 bucks?!?! thats just too much for a single game

 

[pspivak]

For as much as they hit you for the games hey should give you the console. I have a bunch tied up in my PSP so far and my kid has 36 games for his gamecube. This is a huge investment to provide entertainment for a 9 and 4 year old.

Were gonna go for the Sony PS3.

 

[socrates63]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman Gimicks.

Head-Fi resident cynic, eh? I'm willing it to give Xbox 360 a chance and wait final judgment until it's released because I'm unaware of any other elegant solution.

If there's a better and cheaper solution available (Windows Media Connector devices notwithstanding) to playing videos stored on a PC in the family room, someone please let me know.

 

[Edwood]

Actually, those extra features are gimmicks. C'mon, the real reason for buying is playing games.

I am really excited about the hardware design of the XBox 360. I haven't been this impressed since the Dreamcast. The controller is the best I've played with yet. The wireless one is really lightweight and compact, yet it fits comfortably in the hands.

I like the fact that the Hard drive is user upgradeable.

Back on topic, anyone else pre-order?

What bundle options were available or required? Which stores?

-Ed

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleed is it true though that the games for the next gen consoles are gonna be around $70 bucks?!?! thats just too much for a single game

Man, I hope not. I can see prices at $60, but $70 is really pushing it, unless it's a mega special collectors edition.

-Ed

 

[JiiEf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood The reason that we don't see this with consoles with online capabilities like XBox and PS2 now, is that there is a single entity that makes standards for game release quality. e.g. Microsoft won't allow EA or other publishers to release a buggy unfinished game for the XBox. -Ed

Knights of the Old Republic II - Sith Lords and Deus Ex : Invisible War notwithstanding?

Buggy releases have spread to consoles, too. I use both, but since my only comp is a laptop, most of the newer stuff is available to me only on the 'box.

Not thinking of buying any of the nextgens in a while, if at all.

/JF

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood What bundle options were available or required? Which stores?

I got mine at the local Gamestop, it was a $50 deposit and no bundle purchasing was required, however they may try and push the bundles to people trying to get them early on sans reservation, that seems to be the trend.

They say that publishers were testing the market for pricier games when they released the Halo special edition at $60 to see if gamers were willing to pay extra for more content, and they did in large numbers. They can say that games cost more to develop now but there are more people out there buying them. I think that increasing the price too drastically on new games will force gamers to be much more selective in purchasing, and almost completely diminish impulse buys. Everyone will be waiting for the reviews so they don't waste their non-refundable $70 investment.

 

[wallijonn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman I only buy 1 game a year, at most. Console games simply cannot last five years. PC games last MUCH longer.

I usually will buy $10, $15 and $20 games. I just finished "Armed & Dangerous" ($10) and am presently playing "Beyond Good & Evil" ($10), and "Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time" ($15). "Medal of Honor: Allied Assault" ($10), "Riddick" ($20), "Devestation" ($5) are on the batter's circle.

PC games last about 5 years because that is how long MS will support an OS. Consoles usually last 2 years because that is the time frame for a new console to come out. If the Revolution comes out and can support NES games, then console games can last more than 5 years. I have plenty of old W98 games which I haven't even opened, like the original "Battle Zone" and the BZ Gold Pack. I couldn't get the original System Shock to work on W2K or WXP. Maybe Linux should work on getting old W98 games to run right...

I'll be buying the X360 when it comes out. When Halo for the PC came out I spent $800 to upgrade. When HL2 came out I took it back for a refund because of Stream. You think an XBox'er will wait 5 minutes for a game to start? Unlikely. There are plenty of crappy and buggy console games. Ever play the last Turok game? I have mixed feelings about 'Beyond Good & Evil' - the controls could be a lot better. Other than 'Armed and Dangerous' there hasn't been a TPS (Third Person Shooter) that I've liked in a long time (my favourite being Tomb Raider on the PS1).