morgin
100+ Head-Fier
I will try this method if I get a chance to do measurements again. Yours looks very secure so there isn’t much movement. It’s a shame we can’t just use your measurements and add in our ears.
samson mic is 3mm mic. And My eartip is E500 final audio E-type SS size.
First, I pulled on the ear and pushed it in deeper, and second, I pulled on the bottom of the ear where the ear canal bends in the ear and pushed it in a little bit more, like a little bit upward, almost to the point where it hurt. I made a "plop, plop, plop" sound. When I put it in this deep, I can't see the microphone at all in the mirror.
I ran the line behind my ear to clean it up and secured the line around my neck and behind my ear with medical tape.
I love how far you've taken this, it's brilliant! How are you implementing this dry-bass crossover? I want to try the same thing out but the technique I use involves running audio through a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) for real-time processing. I'd like to create hesuvi-compatible IR .wav files for use outside of my DAW so I can easily use it with videogames and TV/movies.
And this is my ears messurement. It's a different response from the umik mic, right?But this is how I hear (face, shoulder, etc.).
I previously thought of a 50 Hz crossover, but I changed it to 90 Hz. The target is LR4.
These latest posts are giving me an itch to try some more measurements.I love how far you've taken this, it's brilliant! How are you implementing this dry-bass crossover? I want to try the same thing out but the technique I use involves running audio through a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) for real-time processing. I'd like to create hesuvi-compatible IR .wav files for use outside of my DAW so I can easily use it with videogames and TV/movies.
Last weekend I tried creating some new BRIR and headphone captures for the first time in about 2 years. I have been pretty dang happy with the few IR files I've been using during this time, but I figured that I could do better, and I was right. The first improvement I made was to get more consistent microphone placement. I don't know why I didn't think of doing it before, but I had some small foam eartips that I never ended up using and these happen to perfectly fit the Sound Professional mic capsules I use:
I am able to reliably place these mics in the same position every time, so that greatly simplified taking measurements from different headphones, since I can do so separately from recording the speakers/room.
The next thing I did differently was to deaden the room as much as I could with household pillows, blankets, sofa cushions, etc. I wish I had thought to take a picture of the room after I added everything to it, it looked like the cave of some hermit with a penchant for fabrics. Despite looking insane, the room treatment made a HUGE difference. The natural decay time of the room went from well over 0.5 seconds to less than 0.35 seconds. To my ears, the room was nearly completely dead above around 500hz or so. The lowest room modes weren't eliminated since I wasn't using acoustic treatment that could absorb much low end, so I did the best I could to find a spot in the room to prevent low-end issues and then captured my Kali LP-6 studio monitors at arms-length away with a 7.1 configuration (I have no subwoofer, unfortunately).
Overall, this new capture came out great. By far the cleanest I've achieved yet. I'm not even sure if can be cleaner except for the low end. Everything above bass is crystal clear and crisp. If I get a dry-pass-through crossover in the low end then I will be able to perfect that portion as well.
TL;DR: I stuffed my room full of pillows and blankets as acoustic treatment and the results were far better than I expect it. I HIGHLY recommend trying that out if you've not done so yet!
I love how far you've taken this, it's brilliant! How are you implementing this dry-bass crossover? I want to try the same thing out but the technique I use involves running audio through a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) for real-time processing. I'd like to create hesuvi-compatible IR .wav files for use outside of my DAW so I can easily use it with videogames and TV/movies.
Last weekend I tried creating some new BRIR and headphone captures for the first time in about 2 years. I have been pretty dang happy with the few IR files I've been using during this time, but I figured that I could do better, and I was right. The first improvement I made was to get more consistent microphone placement. I don't know why I didn't think of doing it before, but I had some small foam eartips that I never ended up using and these happen to perfectly fit the Sound Professional mic capsules I use:
I am able to reliably place these mics in the same position every time, so that greatly simplified taking measurements from different headphones, since I can do so separately from recording the speakers/room.
The next thing I did differently was to deaden the room as much as I could with household pillows, blankets, sofa cushions, etc. I wish I had thought to take a picture of the room after I added everything to it, it looked like the cave of some hermit with a penchant for fabrics. Despite looking insane, the room treatment made a HUGE difference. The natural decay time of the room went from well over 0.5 seconds to less than 0.35 seconds. To my ears, the room was nearly completely dead above around 500hz or so. The lowest room modes weren't eliminated since I wasn't using acoustic treatment that could absorb much low end, so I did the best I could to find a spot in the room to prevent low-end issues and then captured my Kali LP-6 studio monitors at arms-length away with a 7.1 configuration (I have no subwoofer, unfortunately).
Overall, this new capture came out great. By far the cleanest I've achieved yet. I'm not even sure if can be cleaner except for the low end. Everything above bass is crystal clear and crisp. If I get a dry-pass-through crossover in the low end then I will be able to perfect that portion as well.
TL;DR: I stuffed my room full of pillows and blankets as acoustic treatment and the results were far better than I expect it. I HIGHLY recommend trying that out if you've not done so yet!
I'd sooner put a few more pillows in my room pretending I'm doing room treatment, than worry about how I ruined my music with jitter or DS conversion. I truly believe my pillows will play a bigger role(good or bad).
I've done stuff to reduce the noise coming from my regular computer too, with yoga brick, acoustic panels, pillows, etc, but none of that can stop low frequencies. so to my ears it's pretty quiet, but my mics disagree ^_^.
Thanks. Yes. When it's in your ear properly, it won't move even if you shake your head. But be careful, even that tiny 3mm microphone will create that much pressure if it's stuck too deep. You'll need to gently wiggle it out.I will try this method if I get a chance to do measurements again. Yours looks very secure so there isn’t much movement. It’s a shame we can’t just use your measurements and add in our ears.
Hi. And thanks.That looks great. The 3mm capsule looks very interesting as it is much easier to place in the ear canal compared to 6.3mm capsules. How is the noise performance of the mics? Could you compare it against other mics?
I love how far you've taken this, it's brilliant! How are you implementing this dry-bass crossover? I want to try the same thing out but the technique I use involves running audio through a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) for real-time processing. I'd like to create hesuvi-compatible IR .wav files for use outside of my DAW so I can easily use it with videogames and TV/movies.
Good! Even if it's not Glasswool or Rockwool, the more densely you fill a room, the less RT60 it will eventually have. However, bass is not as easy to achieve, and treble is actually standardized to only absorb or disperse ultra-frequency sound (within 20ms), and to reverberate as much as possible to get a full sense of the size of the room.The next thing I did differently was to deaden the room as much as I could with household pillows, blankets, sofa cushions, etc. I wish I had thought to take a picture of the room after I added everything to it, it looked like the cave of some hermit with a penchant for fabrics. Despite looking insane, the room treatment made a HUGE difference. The natural decay time of the room went from well over 0.5 seconds to less than 0.35 seconds. To my ears, the room was nearly completely dead above around 500hz or so. The lowest room modes weren't eliminated since I wasn't using acoustic treatment that could absorb much low end, so I did the best I could to find a spot in the room to prevent low-end issues and then captured my Kali LP-6 studio monitors at arms-length away with a 7.1 configuration (I have no subwoofer, unfortunately).
Overall, this new capture came out great. By far the cleanest I've achieved yet. I'm not even sure if can be cleaner except for the low end. Everything above bass is crystal clear and crisp. If I get a dry-pass-through crossover in the low end then I will be able to perfect that portion as well.
From the data sheet I tried to retrieve the frequency response and plotted it in comparison to the Primo Em258. I guess the data for the Samson is more smoothed.Hi. And thanks.
That's the only Samson microphone I've used, so I don't have any experience to make a relative comparison.
However, bass is not as easy to achieve, and treble is actually standardized to only absorb or disperse ultra-frequency sound (within 20ms), and to reverberate as much as possible to get a full sense of the size of the room.
But nevertheless, your efforts will not be in vain, I'm sure there will be an improvement in the sound as you felt.
You'll find it much easier to measure and check things in REW. It's intuitive.
In my case, most of the calibration is done directly with REW. The features in the impulcifer are great, but I don't use them at all.I've done some work in REW, though not while using the in-ear mics. I've only used it for manually correcting the EQ of my room outside of use with Impulcifer. I will have to try using it for my next set of measurements.
Could you post umik measurement of your room in REW? Decay, RT60 things.When I make captures when the new mics arrive, I'm going to treat the room less drastically compared to last time. The highs are just TOO crisp and direct now and I get very little sense of the room itself except in the low-end. I will have to experiment with various levels of treatment to find something that still feels crisp and clean but that also feels more natural, like I'm in a nice room instead of an anoechic chamber. I can use artificial reverb to add that sense of space back in, but it's not quite as convincing as actually hearing my own room.
Sorry. I don't understand "with AND without a subwoofer?" things.Has above else here tried making Impulcifer captures with AND without a subwoofer? If so, I'd love to know how using the sub affected the results.
And this means You did use "Decay Parameter"? or anything else?When I make captures when the new mics arrive, I'm going to treat the room less drastically compared to last time. The highs are just TOO crisp and direct now and I get very little sense of the room itself except in the low-end. I will have to experiment with various levels of treatment to find something that still feels crisp and clean but that also feels more natural, like I'm in a nice room instead of an anoechic chamber. I can use artificial reverb to add that sense of space back in, but it's not quite as convincing as actually hearing my own room.
This is great information, thank you! That rule about attenuating reflections within 20ms to -30 db makes a lot of sense, while leaving the rest in-place but low enough not to muddy everything up. I'm not sure how realistic of a goal that would be in my room, but I'll definitely try to shoot for it! I don't have any REW measurements of my room since I haven't used it in a couple years and I've lost all of the files from when I last used it. I didn't use the measurement mic at all with my last session. I will use it next time to get a better idea of what I need to do to get closer to the ideal reflection attenuation. The room I'm using is only 3.5 x 3.5 x 2.4 meters in width, length, height, a typical small apartment bedroom here in the USA.Could you post umik measurement of your room in REW? Decay, RT60 things.
I know from the last article that you tried to damp RT60 using blankets and sofas.
But The important point is this. The entire RT60 is mostly not required to be managed.
The goal should be to attenuate reflections within 20 ms to at least -30 db. Reflections after 20ms can be left alone. It makes you aware of the space and gives you vitality.
But reflections before 20ms (especially within 10ms) make everything murky and blurry.
Sorry, I was just asking if someone has tried creating a HRIR with Impulcifer of their room with their subwoofer enabled, and then creating another HRIR with the subwoofer disabled, and then comparing the two to see if the quality of the bass is improved with the subwoofer or if using EQ on the HRIR to boost the bass gives just as good a result as using a subwoofer (with EQ corrections).Sorry. I don't understand "with AND without a subwoofer?" things.
The main issue that I run into when creating HRIRs is mismatched volume in the left and right channel below 100hz that is caused by room modes. I've tried using a measurement mic in order to reduce the issue but it's never perfect enough to not bother me. This is only when I have used room correction and boosted the low end artificially. The room nodes are much less of a problem when keeping my speaker's natural low end roll-off, but of course that doesn't sound anywhere near as fun! I usually resort to making everything in the low end mono using a plugin (I use Mongoose by Boz Digital Labs). That removes the channel imbalance, but it sounds less natural and life-like since it removes the ITD.The answer is whether the noise floor and the speaker's roll-off bass do not overlap.
If it's a sufficient volume and controlled noise floor, it's not a big problem.
And you don't need the bass below the band that's rolling off anyway. Even if you boost it, it's a fake low tone.
That's why I use it with Direct Bass.
You can add a subwoofer response, but it's all good I like to try many things. If RT60 in the lower part of the room wasn't managed, a direct bath might be more helpful than a subwoofer.
No, I didn't use the --decay parameter. I was referring to the total decay time of the HRIR, which was about a 3rd of the HRIR length compared to the HRIRs I've made of my room without any acoustic treatment at all. I'm going to use REW to take some measurements next time so that I have more useful metrics to compare, like RT60 and decay time for specific frequencies.And this means You did use "Decay Parameter"? or anything else?
This is why I measured it in a large space at a height of 2m. This is to remove all reflections without using decay parameters.
Yes and No.That rule about attenuating reflections within 20ms to -30 db makes a lot of sense, while leaving the rest in-place but low enough not to muddy everything up
. I didn't use the measurement mic at all with my last session. I will use it next time to get a better idea of what I need to do to get closer to the ideal reflection attenuation. The room I'm using is only 3.5 x 3.5 x 2.4 meters in width, length, height, a typical small apartment bedroom here in the USA.
No you dont have to Sorry. that's my fault. (my My translations)Sorry, I was just asking if someone has tried creating a HRIR with Impulcifer of their room with their subwoofer enabled, and then creating another HRIR with the subwoofer disabled, and then comparing the two to see if the quality of the bass is improved with the subwoofer or if using EQ on the HRIR to boost the bass gives just as good a result as using a subwoofer (with EQ corrections).
That's sounds sad. It was a reasonable choice for you to make, but it would be very sad to get rid of ITD, removing the benefits that came from Impulcifer.The main issue that I run into when creating HRIRs is mismatched volume in the left and right channel below 100hz that is caused by room modes. I've tried using a measurement mic in order to reduce the issue but it's never perfect enough to not bother me. This is only when I have used room correction and boosted the low end artificially. The room nodes are much less of a problem when keeping my speaker's natural low end roll-off, but of course that doesn't sound anywhere near as fun! I usually resort to making everything in the low end mono using a plugin (I use Mongoose by Boz Digital Labs). That removes the channel imbalance, but it sounds less natural and life-like since it removes the ITD.
Yes! That's what i'm saying.EDIT: I found the ITD for my measurements in the readme file generated by Impulcifer when creating the HRIR, so I plugged those numbers into a delay plugin that can delay based on samples instead of just time and that works pretty well. It's funny how you can hear the bass "move" in the room by adjusting those numbers. It sounds pretty good and I'm not even using any reverb on top of the bass. I'm going to play around with that a bit, but I might just keep this dry.
I'll send over my data folder from Impulcifer and you can mess around with the files as you'd like.Yes! That's what i'm saying.
ITD is a number (clue) to trick your brain.
Naturally, that number changes from measurement to measurement.
For example, if the speakers are placed at an 8-degree angle (as I measured) and are close to mono, the ITD value will be very small (60us for me).
However, a typical equilateral triangle (30 degrees) layout can have an ITD value between 250 and 300us.
If a response is delayed by that number, the brain is tricked into thinking that the speaker or bass response is coming in that far apart.
I sent the FL,FR file again by reply. Check it out. I hope it works. It may not work. (very sad)I'll send over my data folder from Impulcifer and you can mess around with the files as you'd like.
When it's placed close to mono, it's actually similar to just listening to it with the center speaker. (8degree)I am curious, why did you take your speaker measurements at an 8 degree angle? That seems to be very, very shallow to me. Is that how you'd normally listen to your speakers in a room?