Recording Impulse Responses for Speaker Virtualization
Oct 16, 2023 at 7:10 AM Post #1,726 of 1,817
No, in fact as far as EQ processors go, they’re about as different as you can get. TDR Nova is a mastering dynamic EQ plugin. In other words, it’s a sort of combined EQ+Compressor, although it can be used with the dynamics section bypassed and therefore used like a conventional EQ.

As far as I’m aware, no you can’t. TDR Nova is not designed for that type of application. The free version has 4 bands, while the EQ compensation presets for headphones require up to 10 bands.

Mac has a built-in feature (Spatial Audio) that’s basic functionality is somewhat similar to what HeSuVi does but there’s little you can do to customise it. There are specific binaural plugins for MAC but the only ones I know of are designed for professional use in DAWs (and are paid). There may well be some decent free ones but haven’t looked.

Then I might have lost you. I’ve tried to keep it as simple as possible but TDR Nova is quite a sophisticated tool and not designed for consumer use.

G
I have eqAPO and TDR Nova too but couldn't begin to fathom using the latter to do what the former does 😅 Glad to see it's not just me.

Do Macs have stuff like audio hijack that let you use AU / VST etc on system audio? Then you'd just get a convolution plugin and stick IRs into it?
 
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Oct 16, 2023 at 8:13 AM Post #1,727 of 1,817
I have eqAPO and TDR Nova too but couldn't begin to fathom using the latter to do what the former does 😅 Glad to see it's not just me.
Yep, different tools for different jobs for use by different end users!
Do Macs have stuff like audio hijack that let you use AU / VST etc on system audio?
AU (Audio Units) is a plugin architecture specifically designed by Apple for MacOS’s low level sound handling (Core Audio), so absolutely, although I don’t specifically know the Audio Hijack software, so don’t know what functionality it offers. Apple’s Core Audio is far superior to Windows audio architecture, which is why Macs are generally preferred in studio applications. You connect any number of audio devices (including system, hardware and other audio software devices) to Core Audio and use them individually or together however you want (depending on the software you’re using).

G
 
Oct 16, 2023 at 5:39 PM Post #1,728 of 1,817
Yep, different tools for different jobs for use by different end users!

AU (Audio Units) is a plugin architecture specifically designed by Apple for MacOS’s low level sound handling (Core Audio), so absolutely, although I don’t specifically know the Audio Hijack software, so don’t know what functionality it offers. Apple’s Core Audio is far superior to Windows audio architecture, which is why Macs are generally preferred in studio applications. You connect any number of audio devices (including system, hardware and other audio software devices) to Core Audio and use them individually or together however you want (depending on the software you’re using).

G
Audio Hijack is a MacOS only software, I haven't used it either, I just thought you need something like this to do systemwide audio effects with plugins, like I would with windows using VSTHost
 
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Oct 17, 2023 at 3:14 AM Post #1,729 of 1,817
Audio Hijack is a MacOS only software, I haven't used it either, I just thought you need something like this to do systemwide audio effects with plugins, like I would with windows using VSTHost
Yes, you need some software to interface with Core Audio so you can choose which core audio inputs/outputs you want to affect (inc. Systemwide) and how you affect them (routing, levels and what AU plugins you want to use).

I believe Audio Hijack will do that, although personally I would probably use “AU Lab”, which is free software made by Apple themselves. I’ve heard good things about it but again haven’t used it myself, as I use DAW software on a MAC that has all that functionality built-in but I wouldn’t recommend DAW software. It’s overkill for a consumer who only wants to drop a few plugins into the system/chain and AU Lab is relatively simple and very lightweight in comparison.

G
 
Nov 4, 2023 at 8:55 AM Post #1,730 of 1,817
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I measured on the roof in advance to correct my speaker onaxis in preparation for recording binaural (direct sound, reflection sound separately) in the next few weeks.

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The distance between the speaker and microphone is 1.3 meters, and both speakers and microphones are 2 meters from the floor.
Before the initial reflection, the -45db impulse and the floor reflection taken at about 8.7ms is about -32db without the use of basstrap. I'm going to ease this with a 40-50cm basstrap.

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I checked the left-right deviation of my speaker's self-response with 5ms gating. The deviation is within 1 dB.

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And I corrected the deviation and response perfectly.

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Now this is going to be similar to the direct sound response that I'm going to record in a few weeks. (Minimum phase, Excess phase both are almost linear phase No shifting.

I'm very excited because I'm going to record the perfect direct sound and the reflection sound from numerous angles in a large space, and then synthesize as much as I want (the space of the size I want) and use it.
 
Nov 4, 2023 at 9:47 AM Post #1,731 of 1,817


I measured on the roof in advance to correct my speaker onaxis in preparation for recording binaural (direct sound, reflection sound separately) in the next few weeks.





The distance between the speaker and microphone is 1.3 meters, and both speakers and microphones are 2 meters from the floor.
Before the initial reflection, the -45db impulse and the floor reflection taken at about 8.7ms is about -32db without the use of basstrap. I'm going to ease this with a 40-50cm basstrap.



I checked the left-right deviation of my speaker's self-response with 5ms gating. The deviation is within 1 dB.



And I corrected the deviation and response perfectly.



Now this is going to be similar to the direct sound response that I'm going to record in a few weeks. (Minimum phase, Excess phase both are almost linear phase No shifting.

I'm very excited because I'm going to record the perfect direct sound and the reflection sound from numerous angles in a large space, and then synthesize as much as I want (the space of the size I want) and use it.
This is super cool, I am very curious to see how you like the results!
 
Nov 4, 2023 at 9:58 AM Post #1,732 of 1,817
This is super cool, I am very curious to see how you like the results!
Thanks. This is just a small part of my months of planning and preparation.... =) (Of course, I had a lot of advice from senior users)
Realistically, no matter how many room acoustics we try in a room, we will never get close to pure sound. Not only that, but because we perceive space through reflections...
It would be great to have a combination of pure direct sound and reflections of the size I want.
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Because I didn't want the bass sound to sound unnecessarily, I created the response by calculating it to mix properly with the bass response on the existing front and the reflection on the surround. In addition, by choosing 50hz crossover as a point, the band below adds direct pure asses, allowing for a more complete, tight, low-pitched experience. I've currently chosen a crossover of 50hz LR48db, but this will have to depend on each personal messurement or Inroom Responsce. Personally, I think up to 24db octaves is fine.
I can raise the XO band of Direct Pure Bass to 100hz, but I already set it to 50hz because I am satisfied with my Bass.

I already have the contradictory experience of adding as many reflections as I want from different angles to the sound of a very good room, so that the crisp sound coexists with the spaciousness of a concert hall... It's hard to explain in words.
 
Nov 4, 2023 at 5:06 PM Post #1,733 of 1,817
Thanks. This is just a small part of my months of planning and preparation.... =) (Of course, I had a lot of advice from senior users)
Realistically, no matter how many room acoustics we try in a room, we will never get close to pure sound. Not only that, but because we perceive space through reflections...
It would be great to have a combination of pure direct sound and reflections of the size I want.


I already have the contradictory experience of adding as many reflections as I want from different angles to the sound of a very good room, so that the crisp sound coexists with the spaciousness of a concert hall... It's hard to explain in words.

Is what you're doing similar to adding reverb?
 
Nov 4, 2023 at 9:33 PM Post #1,734 of 1,817
Is what you're doing similar to adding reverb?
Yes and No. Somethin like concept is the same as the video below. I also have binaural reverb, but it's also very limited data and I need my own custom reverb data measured by my ears. Various spaces (Such as typical rooms, auditoriums, grand halls, soccer fields)
And the most important thing is that you can mix direct and reflective sounds at the desired ratio. from 15-20 ms~80ms, I can mix the reflections of different angles in as much ratio as I want for make own space . It's most important that the direct sound stays clear.




 
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Nov 17, 2023 at 5:20 AM Post #1,735 of 1,817
I used the speaker set up in the in-room and was quite satisfied. But I had no choice but to dispose of the speaker because of my family and various personal reasons.
And I started using various headphones. (Koss KSC75 / Sony MV1 / Sennheiser HD600 / Sennheiser HD800s)

While enjoying music like that, I learned about binaural and impulcifer things.
A few months ago, I carefully asked a senior user who has a very good room in Korea, so I enjoyed replicating the sound of the room. (Perfect REVEL speaker)
But I always had a desire for something clearer, something I could control... In order to solve it, i eventually measured it myself.

Of course, I was already experiencing a crazy experience by adding a measurement from the reflection angle separately to the response I was using and applying binaural reverb to it. But everyone is greedy.

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And the following is part of the process that I've been doing so far. There are so many things to do in the future. an uncharted world


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I used a Generec speaker previously but disposed of it, and this time I bought a 305mkii speaker from JBL for binaural. (Of course this was not a very good choice.)
I measured Onaxis at a height of 2m from the rooftop and made my own filter in advance to correct the deviations and problems with my speakers.

And I waited for months to prepare and plan where and how I would measure and prepare again.

What I was able to try and be confident about was that I could mix the responses I wanted by mixing impulcifer with REW and audacity properly.
And you can apply as many corrections as you want to be more flexible than the situation in the in-room.
But the most important thing is that you rarely need that kind of correction, and it's best to get pure sound, right?
However, ordinary people cannot live in a fragrance-free room. Furthermore, we hear reflections as well as direct sounds.

So... I rented a soccer field and a big gym(or hall? whatever) in my town.

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weather is really nice.
But there were a number of problems.
Software issue with topping E2X2 at the time. Noise floor outdoors (it was too noisy around). And there were many mistakes, so the measurement on this day was too difficult, but I couldn't use a single one. So I was in despair.

And I prepared and prepared for a few more days (body and mind). Information. Knowledge, everything I need)

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It was quite quiet here. And this day was even quieter because I took the test at high schools all over Korea. (On this day, the plane doesn't even move at a certain time.)
I had written down the whole process on a piece of paper and kept checking.

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Btw, microphone I used is Samson's LM-10X.(With Rode VXLR) 2pair.
Also Umik-1 (for Check and Match Speaker Level, Impulse)

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Measurements were made at 1m / 1.3m / 2.4m / 3m / 7m when held large , and specific angle arrangements and distances for experiments were also attempted in the middle.
Speaker height/measurement and ear height is 2m.

I think the picture above is about 1.3m.
I bought a small mirror the day before at Daiso and checked the reflection point with a mirror on the ladder to place the sound-absorbing material(basstrap), and about 1 to 1.5m, it was covered with one sound-absorbing material (1m). Glass wool

So, floor reflection absorption was performed with 500mm Glass wool, and after that, it was divided into 250mm at a distance above that.

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I've already marked the protractor and the specific angles I want on the ladder.

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And i've also experimented with a lot of things that aren't normal stereo angles.
To effectively remove crosstalk (XTC), bring it closer to mono, but not at any angle
Referring to various data, we tried to arrange them in various ways, such as an 8 degree angle. I remember that the distance was about 2.7m? 3m.
As shown in the picture, all arrangements were laser-adjusted toe-in angles except for more than 3 meters, temporarily distance-adjusted with tape measure, and the speakers and speakers were adjusted accurately once again using a laser thermometer. (It's a part that helps ITD reunification)

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It doesn't look that far in the picture, but it's about 7 meters. The XLR cable was 10 meters long, so I could afford it, but the speakers and stands were so unstable that I took it here. Even if you go more than that, the performance of 305 won't support you. (Compress Gurley used it all up to the maximum level and later found the Maginot line volume and increased the microphone amplification a little more. The headroom fell a bit, but it was indoors, so there was no problem with the file itself.)

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And it's one of the reflection angles collected at different distances. The reflection was measured by turning a 360 degree angle at a 5 degree angle, and I put an eyeglass case behind the speaker to tilt it
It was so unstable that I only did one height layer. (72 measurements of ear height, 72 measurements of height channel higher than ear height)
And as in the picture above, I shot the speaker directly on the wall or looked at the ceiling. I ran out of sound pressure and used up to the limit of 305 speakers today (I actually hear the distortion even in the sweep)

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But the reflections were very satisfactory. The most important thing is the reflection measured to fit my ears and I really like the amount of the initial reflection itself.
I think it will be a reflection IR with a length of approximately 1.4s, and it would be good to process it well.

And........

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I got really clean sound fit my ears. -47db lol (This messurement IR file from 2 or 2.4 meter)

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And it's a response when my speakers and direct bass are combined. very clean. (Never mind the low-frequency boost or not. I can raise it as much as I want.)

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And this is my ears messurement. It's a different response from the umik mic, right?But this is how I hear (face, shoulder, etc.).
I previously thought of a 50 Hz crossover, but I changed it to 90 Hz. The target is LR4.

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And it's my response that I got really cleanly. Too clean and sharp.
 
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Nov 17, 2023 at 5:22 AM Post #1,736 of 1,817
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Decay is Perfect!
And most importantly, this is not the end. I have 72 messages for each distance at a 360 degree angle (there's another height channel!) This is that I can apply as many reflections as I want.
I can create "the space I want" to be precise.
And this clean direct sound is just a white drawing paper for it.
unspoiled paper.



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Phase is also good!

This is what some users think. (In Korea, too)
Why don't you listen to it on the speaker?
Why would you want to replicate speakers with headphones?

Not everyone can have an ideal room. But everyone has a desire for sound.
And this is one of the ways to relieve that desire a lot.
This is the same as a speaker system under the assumption that it is well-measured.

I'm under the illusion that I'm listening to a large JBL horn speaker, not a small book shelf speaker 305 on JBL anymore. File measured at a distance of 3 meters.
In fact, it's not at all 3m away from that space. Nearfield.
But nevertheless, the sound is so huge and clear that it wraps around me.
Now that all the ingredients I can play with are ready, I can mix as many reflections as I want.
 
Nov 17, 2023 at 5:55 AM Post #1,737 of 1,817
Thank you for sharing your adventure. I thought I was going too far with tests and tweaks for headphone playback, but I never actually tried to get on a football field. The most I tried out of curiosity was behind the house on ladders with a few carpets to experience less reflection without directly cutting off the tail of the impulse.
 
Nov 17, 2023 at 6:30 AM Post #1,738 of 1,817
Thank you for sharing your adventure. I thought I was going too far with tests and tweaks for headphone playback, but I never actually tried to get on a football field. The most I tried out of curiosity was behind the house on ladders with a few carpets to experience less reflection without directly cutting off the tail of the impulse.
What you did has the same purpose as what I did!

I wanted a more pure sound, and I needed materials that I could work with, so I went a little more crazy with the measurements, and I don't think it's a bad idea to go this far if you have an in-room with some room acoustics.
 
Nov 17, 2023 at 6:47 AM Post #1,740 of 1,817
This is amazing and dedication lol. I think I was going too far too with the protractor printout and the laser guides. The in ear mic setup look clean too can you show more pictures of what you used and how the wire is placed?

You means Ear Mic picture? I only took one picture of it. sorrry.
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samson mic is 3mm mic. And My eartip is E500 final audio E-type SS size.
First, I pulled on the ear and pushed it in deeper, and second, I pulled on the bottom of the ear where the ear canal bends in the ear and pushed it in a little bit more, like a little bit upward, almost to the point where it hurt. I made a "plop, plop, plop" sound. When I put it in this deep, I can't see the microphone at all in the mirror.
I ran the line behind my ear to clean it up and secured the line around my neck and behind my ear with medical tape.

https://ko.aliexpress.com/item/1005...132106!sea!KR!0!AB&curPageLogUid=eUUPPChKLaNV

this product i used.
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I made a very shallow knife cut in the middle rubber of the ear tip to make a hole, and I put the microphone through it, and then I pulled the wire and stretched it taut and attached it to the ear tip and secured it with Teflon tape.
And then I just put the eartips back on the way they came off.
 
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