Recording Impulse Responses for Speaker Virtualization
Jan 16, 2023 at 1:45 PM Post #1,471 of 1,817
Thanks to jaakkopasanen for all the incredible work on Impulcifer and making it all open-source.

I have just added a suggestion in GitHub:

Given that we likely know the approx frequency response of the headphones (thanks to the AutoEQ database), could we capture the frequency response of the mic capsules by holding the capsules directly to the headphones whilst playing the test sine through them?

Once we know the capsules' frequency response, we could use it for room correction without the hassle and cost of using a UMIK microphone.
 
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Jan 17, 2023 at 3:20 AM Post #1,472 of 1,817
Thanks to jaakkopasanen for all the incredible work on Impulcifer and making it all open-source.

I have just added a suggestion in GitHub:

Given that we likely know the approx frequency response of the headphones (thanks to the AutoEQ database), could we capture the frequency response of the mic capsules by holding the capsules directly to the headphones whilst playing the test sine through them?

Once we know the capsules' frequency response, we could use it for room correction without the hassle and cost of using a UMIK microphone.
That would almost never work and we wouldn't really know when it does. Your headphone and the one measured online are most likely different enough to make it audible(2dB is completely normal for most brands).
Then your ear isn't like the measurement rig. When you do a direct comparison between 2 headphones measured on the same system you still might have some variations from placement compared as to how you would wear it, but for the most part the variations are... I wouldn't say reliable, but usable at least. When you put the mic in your ear, you're adding the acoustic impact of your ear to the headphone measurement, and as capturing that is the main point of doing measurement with impulcifer, you wouldn't want to cancel the FR portion of it while trying to calibrate the mic. There is more to lose than to gain.
Also the graphs are supposedly made with the mic near the simulated eardrum while the mic you place in your ear remains at the entrance of the ear canal. So that's more stuff to try and compensate for.

IMO there are just too many variables. Even with the ability to measure my own headphone to get rid of the possible differences between my headphone and the online measurements, I have no idea how to objectively do what you're asking for. I would instead suggest one of 3 possible approaches:
1/ You wing it and EQ however you feel is improving the measurement(not great but if you like the result, it might be a progress).
2/ You hope that your equal loudness contour is average, and you use test tones to EQ based on when you can just barely notice the tones(you first set your amp as quietly as possible to just barely notice something and then EQ around that). Once it's done you "remove" the equal loudness curve(one for low level listening!!!) from your EQ and hopefully a bunch of things will be right that way.
3/ You use speakers that are kind of flat at your listening position to reference perceived flat.
We've mentioned Griesinger here a few times and his method is about calibrating in front of him(right in the middle with one speaker placed there). I think it's more effective for binaural tracks we would record ourselves at our ears. I'm not sure it's the right approach for us, but it's still probably better than nothing.

I think all approaches turn out to have one thing in common, you need to have some reference you can use even if it's just a mental one from musician training or whatever). The equal loudness curve seems like a good candidate as it might work alone(like in 1/), or be used for both the speaker sound and the headphone+impulcifer sound. If we can manage to match both to the equal loudness reference, then it means we have effectively linked both and we can generate an EQ for the differences.

I can't think of anything truly simple and fully automated.





@morgin I'm not ignoring you, I just didn't follow the amp market for years and I also don't know what your needs actually are. So I do what I'm best at in such a situation, I keep my mouth shut^_^.
 
Jan 17, 2023 at 4:00 AM Post #1,473 of 1,817
That would almost never work and we wouldn't really know when it does. Your headphone and the one measured online are most likely different enough to make it audible(2dB is completely normal for most brands).
...
I can't think of anything truly simple and fully automated.

Thanks .. sounds like a calibrated mic like the UMIK is really the way to go in that case.
 
Jan 17, 2023 at 5:04 AM Post #1,474 of 1,817
@morgin I'm not ignoring you, I just didn't follow the amp market for years and I also don't know what your needs actually are. So I do what I'm best at in such a situation, I keep my mouth shut^_^.
I know… but as @reter suggested the amp and mic might not make much of a difference and the cost is something I will need to look into. But appreciate everyone’s help when they’re able to provide it. Even without the bass being to where I would like it, I still have a fantastic sounding setup all with the comfort of headphones.

One question if in future I do get a new pair of headphones. Do I need to do the whole speaker and headphone measurements again? Or is there a way of just doing the headphones and using previous speaker measurements?

As you know getting the almost “perfect” results takes a huge chunk of luck with a lot of setup and testing
 
Jan 17, 2023 at 7:38 AM Post #1,475 of 1,817
I know… but as @reter suggested the amp and mic might not make much of a difference and the cost is something I will need to look into. But appreciate everyone’s help when they’re able to provide it. Even without the bass being to where I would like it, I still have a fantastic sounding setup all with the comfort of headphones.

One question if in future I do get a new pair of headphones. Do I need to do the whole speaker and headphone measurements again? Or is there a way of just doing the headphones and using previous speaker measurements?

As you know getting the almost “perfect” results takes a huge chunk of luck with a lot of setup and testing
You could measure just the new headphones and run the processing again. This requires that you have good consistency with your mic placement (the mics need to be in the same positions as the were when you made the original measurements).
 
Jan 17, 2023 at 3:07 PM Post #1,476 of 1,817
I know… but as @reter suggested the amp and mic might not make much of a difference and the cost is something I will need to look into. But appreciate everyone’s help when they’re able to provide it. Even without the bass being to where I would like it, I still have a fantastic sounding setup all with the comfort of headphones.

One question if in future I do get a new pair of headphones. Do I need to do the whole speaker and headphone measurements again? Or is there a way of just doing the headphones and using previous speaker measurements?

As you know getting the almost “perfect” results takes a huge chunk of luck with a lot of setup and testing
i have not said that the room correction is not worth, can be worth as a plus, on the other hand the amp is needed to boost your signal so i think the amp is a must if you want to get rid of clipping

I don't know if can be helpful, i'm still learning but i think the headphone could be the one responsible of lack of bass, in my case with my 660s the basses are barely noticeable, i should process my same hrir with my older superlux hd681 evo hopefully should boost basses a bit, i'm still doubtful but i need to try several things to learn in what direction i want my audio to go


guys do you know about the eq peace audiometry test? should i start the test before or after the hrir processing?
 
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Jan 17, 2023 at 6:38 PM Post #1,477 of 1,817
One question if in future I do get a new pair of headphones. Do I need to do the whole speaker and headphone measurements again? Or is there a way of just doing the headphones and using previous speaker measurements?

If you still have the old headphone you can measure both headphones directly after each other and equalize the differences. This was the best solution for me.
 
Jan 19, 2023 at 5:49 AM Post #1,478 of 1,817
What would be a recommended binaural microphone nowadays? (Including recorder and all you need if you start from scratch)

Edit:
Some online research told me
DPA 4560
https://www.thomann.de/de/dpa_4560_binaural_headset_micro.htm

MS-TFB-2-MkII
https://soundprofessionals.com/product/MS-TFB-2-MKII/

I guess for both I need an Interface.
The Sound professionals has a bundle with the SP-SSA-21. It looks like that device is lacking the capability to capture below 45Hz though.

So maybe something like a Behringer U-Phoria.
https://www.thomann.de/de/behringer...y6OmItolqRYlXRstFGmZF7AZaY2h5wKEaAq-8EALw_wcB

Do I need more?
What about Software?
Thoughts on the stuff I found?
 
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Jan 20, 2023 at 12:42 PM Post #1,479 of 1,817
I think nobody here has experience with such expensive mics.
Some here use the mics from soundprofessionals for measuring. I used the Primo Em258 but soldered the cables myself (that way the mic is even cheaper).https://soundprofessionals.com/product/MS-TFB-2-MKII/
For most interfaces and microphones you need a adapter like the Rode VXLR+ to convert the phantom voltage to plugin-power. If you have a good soundcard you may not need a interface at all.
 
Jan 22, 2023 at 11:40 AM Post #1,480 of 1,817
Short Update.
Since they are on sale right now, I just put down an order for the Sound professionals mics.

I will add a Behringer U-Phoria.

And when everything is here I will probably continue to post questions.
 
Jan 23, 2023 at 12:06 PM Post #1,483 of 1,817
Guys have someone tried the minidsp for enhancing the audio?
I'm afraid you need to be more specific than that.
MiniDSP has a whole range of products
 

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