[LarryK2]

Greetings,

I'm new to the forum - first post. There seems to be a wealth of information here, so I'm looking for advice.

Here's what I've got:

AKG K701, Denon 685 receiver w/ headphone out, PA2V2, cheap CDPs, Linn Axis/Akito arm/audio-technica DRA500LC cartridge (NOS).

The 701s sound very good with the Denon and with the PA2V2, but I assume that they can be much better.

What kind of changes/improvements and to what extent are they likely to be evident if I invest in something like a Darkvoice 332? Other suggestions are welcome. I Know that this is very subjective, but don't want to make the investment unless I'm likely to perceive a substantial difference in sound. I'm a professional cellist and listen to classical music and a bit of jazz. I've been listening to CD players lately in order to see how much $ I'm going to have to spend in order to be able to enjoy digital - the Naim $1700 unit seems to be the entry level for me - less expensive units just didn't do it (including the much hyped Rega for $1000).

Thanks in advance.

Larry

 

[griff2]

Since you're a cellist the decision to go tube was wise, since, in my opinion, they are better at conveying the harmonic structure of music.

I don't have experience of the Darkvoice, but I own an Earmax pro and strings, double bass in particular (with a good enough source), have that organic wooden sound, which so many hi-fi systems just do not get.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Larry- where are you? Before you invest in a tube amp, you should come to a meet and listen to a few.

However, I do think tubes are worth the investment. Now, there are exceptions, but tube circuits are simpler and less complex than solid state amps. I think that the less there is between the signal and your ears the better the music is.

That being said, you would be much better off with a good solid state amp than a cheap tube amp.

If you'd like a good tube amp, the ones that seem to get the most attention around here are ones from Mapletree and Singlepower. Used ones come up here and there, and I'd recommend used over new. They usually hold up just fine.

 

[edisonwu]

The K701 may probably work better with Solid state which is a headphone designed to be low impedance and low sensitivity.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edisonwu /img/forum/go_quote.gif The K701 may probably work better with Solid state which is a headphone designed to be low impedance and low sensitivity.

I owned the 701 for several months and used the 701 with the Headamp GS-1 and several SP amps. As long as I used 5687 or 6bl7gt/6bx7gt tubes as the output tubes in the SP amps I had plenty of power. Moreover, IMO, the tube amps sounded better too. A PPX3 SLAM and especially the new Extreme will have plenty of power for the 701's.

 

[909]

I know where you can probably get (depending on your location) a Saturn for less than $1700 delivered or even $1600. If, of course, you like the way the Saturn sounds. IMO, it's substantially better than the Apollo. If you want the REGA dealer contact details, let me know and I'll send you a PM.

The Head-Amp GS-1 is a really nice sounding solid state, but I prefer the GS-X, which has some upgrades (better power supply among other things) and is balanced too (Saturn doesn't have balanced outputs, though). The GS-X when I heard it balanced w/ the HD650s provided more texture, dynamics, and mass without losing any resolution or refinement.

Here’s the Headamp link:
http://www.headamp.com/
You can either email or call Justin.

I've not heard the SinglePower Extreme, but it's "new" and I've read a lot of good things about it. It apparently has ample power and dynamics, but possibly not as detailed, refined, or resolving as say the MPX3. This is based on what someone posted Mikhail told them. I think the MPX3 is a really great amp, but only with NOS tubes in it.

Here’s the Singlepower link:
http://www.singlepower.com/
But it’s definitely better to call Mikhail.

Another amp, is the Eddie Current Zana Deux. IMO, probably one of the finest amps I’ve heard. It has great dynamics while still being detailed and resolving. It’s also sounds organic and portrays voices and instruments with amazing musicality and realism. Harmonics are bar none too.

Here’s the Eddie Current link:
http://www.eddiecurrent.com/
You can email Craig, but if you don’t hear back use the number to call him since on occasion he’s had email issue.

 

[greenhorn]

Meier Audio "Eartube"?

http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/

 

[LarryK2]

909,

I have heard the Saturn and do indeed like it - it was more refined than the Naim CD5i ($1700 retail) that I saw as my entry CDP. I just don't have the funds to consider upgrading my digital source right now. I'd rather concentrate on the headphone amp so I can get the most out of my LPs. It will probably be a year before I can upgrade my CDP - I would LOVE to have a Saturn at the price you quote. I actually enjoyed listening to it. Thanks for the input on the amps.

Best,
Larry

 

[LarryK2]

Uncle Erik,

I'm in NH. Boston meets are certainly a possibility - I really should try to
go. First hand is, without a doubt, the best way to go.

Cheers,
Larry

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 909 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I know where you can probably get (depending on your location) a Saturn for less than $1700 delivered or even $1600. If, of course, you like the way the Saturn sounds. IMO, it's substantially better than the Apollo. If you want the REGA dealer contact details, let me know and I'll send you a PM. The Head-Amp GS-1 is a really nice sounding solid state, but I prefer the GS-X, which has some upgrades (better power supply among other things) and is balanced too (Saturn doesn't have balanced outputs, though). The GS-X when I heard it balanced w/ the HD650s provided more texture, dynamics, and mass without losing any resolution or refinement. Here’s the Headamp link: http://www.headamp.com/ You can either email or call Justin. I've not heard the SinglePower Extreme, but it's "new" and I've read a lot of good things about it. It apparently has ample power and dynamics, but possibly not as detailed, refined, or resolving as say the MPX3. This is based on what someone posted Mikhail told them. I think the MPX3 is a really great amp, but only with NOS tubes in it. Here’s the Singlepower link: http://www.singlepower.com/ But it’s definitely better to call Mikhail. Another amp, is the Eddie Current Zana Deux. IMO, probably one of the finest amps I’ve heard. It has great dynamics while still being detailed and resolving. It’s also sounds organic and portrays voices and instruments with amazing musicality and realism. Harmonics are bar none too. Here’s the Eddie Current link: http://www.eddiecurrent.com/ You can email Craig, but if you don’t hear back use the number to call him since on occasion he’s had email issue.

Just a few comments from someone who owns both versions of the Extreme and has actually heard them.

After giving the Extremes and the new tubes in them some run in, I dont think the above speculation regarding the Extreme is completely accurate. Ample power and dynamics is a definite understatement. In comparison, the Extreme has atleast 2x the power of the EC Zana Deux also mentioned above; possibly more. The Extreme is a powerhouse. Consequently, the dynamics and bass control of the Extreme are something special.

As for detail, resolution and refinement these aspects seem basically equal to the current models, except I think a SP amp like the top tier MPX3 SLAM SE is more refined than the stock Extreme; but I am not sure if this is true with the Platinum version. But to put that into context the MPX3 SLAM SE is an especially refined and powerful amp that costs several hundred $$$ more than the Extreme Platinum. Again, using the Zana for comparison, since I have heard the Zana on several occassions, I find the Extreme, including the stock model, to be more refined than the Zana Deux .... particularly in the treble. The Extreme has a very open, detailed and non-fatiguing treble. Now the kicker .... the Extreme is approximately half the price of an amp like the Zana at $999 vs $1990. The Extreme is quite the value.

Finally, the comment that the MPX3 sounds best with nos tubes is true. But I would say that is true for most tube amps. But what is awesome about the SP amps is you can use a huge number of nos tubes in them that are less expensive than even many new production tubes .... and these tubes are easily obtainable. An Extreme, for example, uses 6as7/6080 output tubes that can be purchased for $8-11 each. Again, for comparisons sake, the newer production 6c33 output tubes used in the Zana can easily run up to $ 40-50 each. With SP's tube socket adapters you can use approximately twenty different gain tubes; many of them costing as little as $3-4 each, and generally no more that $6-8. The ability to fine tune the SP amps is unparalleled.

So, superb sound quality, excellent pricing, many high quality and inexpensive tube choices, flexibility, upgradeability and the ability to drive any headphone on the market make the Extreme an especially appealing choice. There are a lot of excellent amps available but I would definitely give the Extreme a look if you are going with tubes.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just a few comments from someone who owns both versions of the Extreme and has actually heard them. In comparison, the Extreme has atleast 2x the power of the EC Zana Deux also mentioned above; possibly more. The Extreme is a powerhouse. Consequently, the dynamics and bass control of the Extreme are something special. Again, using the Zana for comparison, since I have heard the Zana on several occassions, I find the Extreme, including the stock model, to be more refined than the Zana Deux .... particularly in the treble. The Extreme has a very open, detailed and non-fatiguing treble. Now the kicker .... the Extreme is approximately half the price of an amp like the Zana at $999 vs $1990. The Extreme is quite the value. Again, for comparisons sake, the newer production 6c33 output tubes used in the Zana can easily run up to $ 40-50 each. With SP's tube socket adapters you can use approximately twenty different gain tubes; many of them costing as little as $3-4 each, and generally no more that $6-8. The ability to fine tune the SP amps is unparalleled.

I and several others have heard both amps and think that the Extreme in its stock form is a great amp but IMHO the Zana is the more musically pleasing amp. I have heard both amps at my home. Now if I wanted an amp that could power the k1000s and my other phones then yeah I'd go extreme. The extreme in it's ugraded form can cost as much as the Zana "for comparisions sake".

BTW and again for comparision sake tubes for the Extreme can easily run "up to" $200. Do tube socket adaptors come free with the amp or is that something you need to purchase? All these need to be taken into consideration when looking apples to apples.

Again I really like the Extreme and think SinglePower has a winner on it's hands but you are the first I have heard that thought the Extreme the more refined amp. Now I have not heard the maxxed out extreme but we will have one in SoFLo soon and I look forward to hearing that amp and think it will compare to the zana really well.

either way you go you can not lose and much of my and others thoughts are based on our ears in our systems with our preferences

 

[drarthurwells]

My headphone system with either the Bada 12 amp or Jolida JD2A amp will yield very natural, transparent and realistic SQ - the most for the bucks.

I would spend thousands more for any one component replacement if I thought it would give me better SQ.

I think the Rega Saturn gives a very natural timbre and great 3-D imaging, and can be matched but not beat by any other source in these regards.

I think that is true also of the K701 and either of my two amps.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I and several others have heard both amps and think that the Extreme in its stock form is a great amp but IMHO the Zana is the more musically pleasing amp. I have heard both amps at my home. Now if I wanted an amp that could power the k1000s and my other phones then yeah I'd go extreme. The extreme in it's ugraded form can cost as much as the Zana "for comparisions sake". BTW and again for comparision sake tubes for the Extreme can easily run "up to" $200. Do tube socket adaptors come free with the amp or is that something you need to purchase? All these need to be taken into consideration when looking apples to apples. Again I really like the Extreme and think SinglePower has a winner on it's hands but you are the first I have heard that thought the Extreme the more refined amp. Now I have not heard the maxxed out extreme but we will have one in SoFLo soon and I look forward to hearing that amp and think it will compare to the zana really well. either way you go you can not lose and much of my and others thoughts are based on our ears in our systems with our preferences

I think the Zana is an excellent amp and if there werent any SP's I would likely own the Zana or a Space Tech Lab SE-6as7g. But I do think the 6c33's can sound rough in the treble .... particularly with a headphone like a Beyer dt880 or GS1000.

If you want to buy the almost unobtainable Bendix 6080's tubes can cost $200. I have some Bendix but I like some combinations with the 5998's .... or even the inexpensive $8 tung sol or raytheon 6080's just as well. The Bendix is one of the most overbuilt tubes I have come across from a quality standpoint but I can come very close sound-wise with the inexpensive tubes.

Tube socket adapters cost $99 each but the savings you will realize over the life of the amp will pay for them many times over. Plus, you gain an immense degree of flexibiltiy to fine tune the amps sound. The ECC TYPE #1 adapter or 2C51 adapter is all I would ever need with an Extreme. An adapter plus a few of the tubes will not cost no more than buying one of the the expensive 6sn7gt's ... and once you have the adapter you are set. With the better 6sl7gt's going up in price I am sure you know what I mean.

I would agree that the Extreme or the Zana are both excellent but as good as the stock Extreme sounds for half the price .... which is a $1000 difference .... if I didnt have an amp I would personally be hard pressed to justify buying a Zana; hence the recommendation. Having had my Extreme for a few weeks with a boat load of tubes at my disposal I am seeing the stock Extreme continue to scale up and up. So you are right, we have two great amps to choose from .... I guess it is just a matter of what you want or can afford to spend.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

Do keep the Mapletree on your short list of tube based amplifiers to research and hopefully audition. Very nice tone brought to the 701s presentation.

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hi-Finthen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do keep the Mapletree on your short list of tube based amplifiers to research and hopefully audition. Very nice tone brought to the 701s presentation.

Very true. However if you want to save a couple of hundred bucks then look into the Heed CanAmp. Excellent match witht he K701.