[lairpost]

I found Head-Fi a few weeks ago and have been reading and enjoying listening to my music all over again because of it.

I'd like some recommendations for my first decent pair of cans for primarily home, but some office use too...sound leakage is ok at office.

I listen to most genres of music but I tend to prefer Portishead, Fischer, Alison Krauss, Mark Knophler, Loreena McKennitt, The Peak Show, along with classic rock, Stones, Sting, Shakira, and of course Mozart and Bach, strings, woodwinds, even organs, even some trance/trip-hop. I often listen to all ~25,000 songs on random (a sampling of them)...so I want cans that do well with a wide range of music.

I prefer neutral sound, with a tendency to softer highs and accurate, not bloated bass, I like strong vocals but not excessively forward mids. I'm 40 and have protected my hearing since I was young.

My home system consists of Vandersteen 2ce Sigs, Vandersteen V2W sub, and Vandersteen surrounds, Outlaw 750 amp, Outlaw 950 pre/pro, Pioneer DV45A SACD/DVD-A. I also have a Roku for MP3 play, wonderful device.

I've had this setup for 5 years. I'm very accustomed to the Vandersteens' versatile nature, mellow warmth. I very much like them and their character. I have the mains quite far apart because of the room, and I like the wide soundstage. The Outlaw gear kicks for movies and is OK for music.

For my portable system (first ipod 3G now ipod 5.5G) I've had Shure e2c for 3 years. They work great for mowing the lawn and casual listening, but the bass is terribly bloated and highs simply don't extend.

Today I received Westone UM2 IEM.

So far I've only listened to them via line-out of ipod 5.5G. I'm not decided on the best tips yet, but so far am very pleased with the un-amped performance. I'm waiting on Gary's PA2V2 to mate with ipod. The PA2V2 will also serve as my headphone amp for home, as the 950 lacks headphone out, which is just as well as I plan to come right off the Pioneer SACD directly. Then in the future, depending, I may upgrade to a better home headphone amp and use the PA2V2 at work and for mobile use.

A friend has Senn HD650, but I'm reluctant to borrow them for fear I'll like them...I don't like the price and don't believe I need to spend that much to be pleased. I really don't want to start a collection of cans. I've battled the audiophile tweaking disease before and don't want to go there again right now. I simply want a familiar sound along with comfort along with an exposure to 'decent' headphones.

From what I've read, I don't believe I'd like Grados and some Senn may be too 'dark'.

So, my question, knowing now what I have and like to listen to...would the very compellingly priced Beyer DT880 (03) at B&H be a good start/match or should I consider others in the $150-200 range.

Thanks,

Brett

 

[Davesrose]

Actually, based on your music preferences, I think you'll like the Senns the best. If the 650s are too expensive for you (keep in mind that on the internet you can find some good deals for them), then don't listen to your friends indeed! You will fall in love with them. Compared to the 580/600, they're a bit easier to drive....they are warmer, but also have a slight treble extension that makes them better at being an all around can IMHO. Classical, Mark Knophler, and Portishead sound sweet (having a lush midrange, seductive bass, and some sparkle in the higher regions).

If price is a real issue, then look at the HD580.....you can pick them up for $140 off Amazon. It doesn't have as much bass as the 650, but still has some great detail, lush warmth, without being "dark".

I wouldn't consider a headphone amp untill you have gotten to know your headphone. Based on your home rig, most any headphone will run OK on it.....the Senns shouldn't have too much problems running off the ipod even. Just, as you probably already know, detail does open up with more/better source equipment

 

[kramer5150]

welcome to the forum, sorry about your wallet

Perception is everything, we all hear things different so you really owe it to yourself to get out and demo some of the popular cans first hand.

That being said, I found the DT880 to have a fair amount of treble boost... enough to cause listening fatigue. My ears/hearing is very sensitive to treble boosted cans. So the sa5k, HD280 and DT880 are not my favorite picks. I much prefer Grados, Sennheiser HDs, and AKGs. IMHO none of which have over-bright treble. I also seem to prefer tube amps and smooth sounding sources, or if anything a little bass-bosted.

For $200, think SR225 or HD580

 

[facelvega]

I think that an SR-225 would handle your music reasonably well, not so sure about the Senns, and within the Beyer offerings you sound to me more like a DT990 man than at DT880 one. I see one or two available on the for sale forum. I also notice that jpelg is selling an AKG K270, the old dual-driver design, which from what I've read might also be a good fit for your tastes.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lairpost /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've had this setup for 5 years. I'm very accustomed to the Vandersteens' versatile nature, mellow warmth. I very much like them and their character. I have the mains quite far apart because of the room, and I like the wide soundstage. The Outlaw gear kicks for movies and is OK for music.

Since the OP mentions that they like the "versatile nature, mellow warmth" of their speakers, then that seems like the 580s as the number one choice, Beyer DT880s second, and well I think the Grados will just be percieved as too bright IMHO.

The 580s have some clear mids (where Beyers can get recessed), as well as strong bass response. It also has the soft treble that the OP is looking for (this gets to be the problem with Beyer....many people find it bright because of the recessed mids). The 580 also has a distinct soundstage. That's quite the complete opposite of the 225.

 

[lairpost]

Thanks all for your words. I failed to mention I have Senn HD490 currently at my office. They were very cheap, and the bass is very muddy, bloated, but overall I enjoy their sound, though my ears get a bit hot in them.

I will demo the HD650 (yikes!) and try to find a pair of HD580 to demo.

Thanks.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lairpost /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks all for your words. I failed to mention I have Senn HD490 currently at my office. They were very cheap, and the bass is very muddy, bloated, but overall I enjoy their sound, though my ears get a bit hot in them. I will demo the HD650 (yikes!) and try to find a pair of HD580 to demo. Thanks.

Does sound like you're a Sennheiser person. I haven't heard the 490s, but they are considered to be a not very good offering by Sennheiser.....bloated bass, lacking refinement.....so you'll be blown away by the 580s!!

The 580s were once Sennheiser's flagship phone, so I think they're a real bargain now. Give them a try before you demo the 650 (because you'll probably love the 650s bass and treble extension, and will have to get one....and start the Head-fi cycle

)

 

[BushGuy]

I haven't ventured into rehab for my Vandersteen addiction. Bought Vandersteen 2C in mid 70's (at that time best synergy was P.S. Audio integ. amp, and of course a good subwoofer)...........this is mentioned because if Vandersteen maintained the quality of his sound from that time - then some 'phone people cannot understand the O.P. frame of reference when he tries to communicate his desires..........with that in mind, I'd strongly suggest a pair of current-model Beyer dt990 with different amping than has been mentioned........even better is the dt990/600. With your presumed frame of reference, you will not be satisfied with what you intend to get at this point in time. Ditto the IEM's.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BushGuy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I haven't ventured into rehab for my Vandersteen addiction. Bought Vandersteen 2C in mid 70's (at that time best synergy was P.S. Audio integ. amp, and of course a good subwoofer)...........this is mentioned because if Vandersteen maintained the quality of his sound from that time - then some 'phone people cannot understand the O.P. frame of reference when he tries to communicate his desires..........with that in mind, I'd strongly suggest a pair of current-model Beyer dt990 with different amping than has been mentioned........even better is the dt990/600. With your presumed frame of reference, you will not be satisfied with what you intend to get at this point in time. Ditto the IEM's.

This is why it's best to do some demoing of heaphones.....especially if you're coming from the speaker world. Headphones are different then speakers and will always have a different sound. What does seem to be consistant with Head-fiers is that some headphones sound "bright" or "veiled" because the listener is not used to their certain emphasis on frequencies. Some feel that Beyers are too piercing because of a recession of mid frequencies. Some feel that Sennheisers are veiled because they have a softer treble then Beyers or Grados. So it's only you who can say for sure what you'll like. The new Beyers are going back to being recessed, so the DT880 will certainly be different then the DT990. I'd only look at either Sennheiser or Beyer.

 

[BushGuy]

The only 2005 version Beyer I have is dt990/600 - and they certainly do NOT have recessed-sounding mids. I trust my ears - not posts. Furthermore, those who would like to rely on graphs should realize that speakers or headphones often do not sound anything at all like the graphs might suggest.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BushGuy /img/forum/go_quote.gif The only 2005 version Beyer I have is dt990/600 - and they certainly do NOT have recessed-sounding mids. I trust my ears - not posts. Furthermore, those who would like to rely on graphs should realize that speakers or headphones often do not sound anything at all like the graphs might suggest.

Some of your points are taken: ie frequency graphs can only be taken so much and be careful what posts say. I know from these posts I couldn't tell whether to get the HD650 or k701. I wound up with the 650 just because I heard it was more of a change (whether or not it was going to be a bass heavy, muddy can). Some of it is synergy with your equipment, but I find the 650s to be far from muddy. They're well balanced with detail, lush midrange, and some deep, controlled bass response.

But the Beyer DT990/DT880 and Sennheiser HD580/650 will be different and the OP should listen to all. My only arguement is that the OP might prefer the softer treble that Sennheiser provides. Only the OP can say for sure

 

[TimmyMac]

Has noone mentioned the K601 yet?

 

[lairpost]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif But the Beyer DT990/DT880 and Sennheiser HD580/650 will be different and the OP should listen to all. My only arguement is that the OP might prefer the softer treble that Sennheiser provides. Only the OP can say for sure

Now my second day with the 'lowly' ipod lineout and UM2s. Given a few more days with this pair, then with the PA2V2 in the mix, I believe I'll have a decent 'phone reference to demo and effectively compare the Senns and Beyers, and perhaps the AKGs. It's much easier to bring my equipment to the store than the other way around.

In the early 80s I had an audiophile roommate with a pair of Vandy 2C driven by something decent but not extravagant. They were magical...when I went listening for new speakers for a new 'space' I listened to the then current 2000 2Ce Signatures and the 3A Signatures. After extensive listening, I decided the difference between the two could/would be far outweighed by the room acoustics, they are very similar to me, even with crazy equip driving them, but the price difference is 2.5 times. That last 5%, 2%, 1% of accuracy, detail, etc. costs a literal fortune.

The same flavor Richard Vandersteen created all those years ago is still there...just more refined and still quite a bargain in my mind. Visually all but the top speaker is quite ugly still...but they sound sweet (to me).

 

[OceanEnthusiast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lairpost /img/forum/go_quote.gif A friend has Senn HD650, but I'm reluctant to borrow them for fear I'll like them...

sennheiser has been selling their landmark hd-580 cans for years now, and because of this you can get them for under $150 new. They're 90+% of what the 650 is and for half the cost. i have both the 580 and 650's. if you like the sennheiser sound, the 580's are one of the better price/performance bargains in headphones.

 

[lairpost]

After a few more days with the UM2 I decided they weren't for me...they just didn't grow on me and decided I'd be better off putting the $ toward something else.

I purchased a Corda Headfive amp used and a pair of (Amazon steal me priced) HD580. The amp has been burning in for a few days (plus the time the previous owner put on it) waiting for the Senns to arrive.

With zero burn-in I'm very happy with the sound of the setup. Oh, source is SACD discs on Pioneer Elite DV45A.

Some/many have characterized this Headfive/Senn combo as 'dark', 'laid back', well then I'm definitely a dark, laid back kinda guy...cause this sound fits me and I'm sure will fill out even more as the phones get some hours.

Many report the HD580 as very comfortable. The clamping force seems a bit much to me...perhaps I'll get used to it, perhaps I'll flex the metal a bit...

Thanks for all the suggestions, I shall do my best to resist demo-ing other phones/amps/combos and be VERY happy with my new found listening nirvana.

Brett

P.S. The crossfeed on the Corda is magical to me, it's just right.