[7288]

Hi,
 
Let me just apologise in advance for this being my first post, it's rather nonchalant to sign up and immediately ask for assistance. That being said, I'm looking to purchase the Sennheiser PXC 450 and I was hoping to figure out a few things.
 
My first concern being that apparently there is a "variant" of the PXC 450 which has a faulty noise cancellation mechanism. Apparently this faulty "variant" stopped being produced late 2007, which makes this concern somewhat of an afterthought, but is there any way I could distinguish the two variants two make sure I'm not left with the faulty one?
 
My second & primary concern is that I might be buying a counterfeit, given the medium on which I am purchasing it (eBay). I wasn't aware of headphone counterfeiting until today but apparently it's rather common and people get duped often, so I'd like to not fall for any scams. That being said, I'm hoping some members could look at a few auctions on eBay with me:
 
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Seller #1
 
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Sennheiser-PXC-450-PXC450-Noise-Cancelling-Headphones-/220683180073
 
This seems the best for value given the price but the price itself is a disconcerting factor, given that the MSRP for the PXC 450 is $449.95USD, whilst the aforementioned listing has it for $349.95USD (with free shipping). I'm aware of legitimate items often being sold on eBay below marker but this does seem a bit low given the total price of the item.
 
As far as the seller goes, he has 65,000+ feedback, 99.4% of which is positive. The bulk of the neutral & negative feedback mainly cite faulty parts and bad communication. I can't see anything in regards to fake items being sold, but given the sheer number of people complaining about the faulty parts I'm led to believe the seller may be selling refurbished parts.
 
Sent via: "USPS Express Mail International"
 
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Seller #2
 
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Sennheiser-PXC450-Noise-Canceling-PXC-450-Headphone-NEW-/310261675372
 
This auction sells the headphones for the same price as the previous auction ($100 under marker) but there's a decent postage fee ($56.05USD), this gives me some illogical sense of reassurance and is probably of no relevance because it is being shipped all the way to Australia incurring high postage costs.
 
On the up side, this seller less feedback (2746) with a higher positive feedback percentage (99.8%) and all mistakes by seller were seemingly wilfully rectified (only one instance in where a buyer complained about refurbished goods, the rest pertaining to wrong items being send and what-not).
 
Sent via: "USPS Priority Mail International"
 
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My final concern would relate to spotting a refurbished item. Are there any tell-tale signs? How could I be sure?
 
Again, I do realise this may be a big ask but I'd really appreciate it if anyone would help.

 

[swbf2cheater]

First off, yes that looks really odd.  Im not saying its a fake but thats price gouging on the shipping and not supposed to be allowed anymore unless its next day air and fully insured as the only shipping method
 
but, why this model?  you can do much better for that price.  Hell, my Phiaton Ms400 is way nicer than the PXC450.  The pxc series never went over here on head fi for good reason, its not really worth the price but thats just my honest opinion.  Did you want this for isolation only? 

 

[7288]

Quote:

First off, yes that looks really odd.  Im not saying its a fake but thats price gouging on the shipping and not supposed to be allowed anymore unless its next day air and fully insured as the only shipping method
 
but, why this model?  you can do much better for that price.  Hell, my Phiaton Ms400 is way nicer than the PXC450.  The pxc series never went over here on head fi for good reason, its not really worth the price but thats just my honest opinion.  Did you want this for isolation only? 

I've amended my original post to include the default shipping options for each listing.
 
Why this model? Quite frankly, I'm not too knowledgeable as far as headphones go and from the higher-end brands I've been reading up on and Sennheiser's "bang for buck" seems to be greater than the other high-end brands like BOSE. With that in consideration, I figure[d] that if I was going to go with good headphones this would be the best choice.

 

[swbf2cheater]

You can do much better for such an insanely high price.  The PXC series is top tier in isolation and nothing else.  Audio quality doesnt not match up to that kind of price, and for 350$ you can enter our world of Hi Fi audiophile grade sound in other sets.  
 
I and others can name many sets for much less that are simply a much better value.  My personal favorite is the Phiaton MS400 which you can get for around $160 on ebay.  $250 new. Along with the Sennheiser HD25-II, they are the best small portable sets you can get and both isolate very well.  Not as good as the PXC450 though, but they beat it in everything else.  
 
It really depends on what type of set you are looking for.  If you can give me more details as to what you plan on using them for, it would help a lot with my recommendations.  

 

[7288]

Quote:

You can do much better for such an insanely high price.  The PXC series is top tier in isolation and nothing else.  Audio quality doesnt not match up to that kind of price, and for 350$ you can enter our world of Hi Fi audiophile grade sound in other sets.  
 
I and others can name many sets for much less that are simply a much better value.  My personal favorite is the Phiaton MS400 which you can get for around $160 on ebay.  $250 new. Along with the Sennheiser HD25-II, they are the best small portable sets you can get and both isolate very well.  Not as good as the PXC450 though, but they beat it in everything else.  
 
It really depends on what type of set you are looking for.  If you can give me more details as to what you plan on using them for, it would help a lot with my recommendations.  

I'm somewhat surprised by this given the reviews I've read on the PXC 450 since nearly all of them state that it the audio quality is great and some stating that it is almost on par with the HD 650 (which I was originally intending to go with until I factored commuting into the equation).
 
With no offence intended, do you have any sources to back up the claim that the Phiaton MS400 & the HD 25-II are better than the PXC 450 in terms of audio quality? I'd rather not go off a single opinion so proof or corroborating comments from other members would help.
 
The headphones would be typically used while out & about, mainly whilst commuting (train & plane).

 

[swbf2cheater]

None what so ever, just my word.  But dont let me or anyone sway you from what you want or have your eye on.  The 450 uses the HD595 drivers, which are not as clear as the phiaton.  
 
The HD595 is known for pinpoint accuracy, large soundstage, and its very weak bass.  In closed back form inside the PXC450, the stage is very small.  Not sure what else to say really except there is a reason there arent many reviews on it and its not that popular at all around here.

 

[7288]

Quote:

None what so ever, just my word.  But dont let me or anyone sway you from what you want or have your eye on.  The 450 uses the HD595 drivers, which are not as clear as the phiaton.  
 
The HD595 is known for pinpoint accuracy, large soundstage, and its very weak bass.  In closed back form inside the PXC450, the stage is very small.  Not sure what else to say really except there is a reason there arent many reviews on it and its not that popular at all around here.

At this point I'm just looking to get the best headphones within my budget and as asinine as it may sound I was thinking the higher the price tag - the better the quality. That being said, what are some good headphones in the $300-$400 range?
 
Anyway, I had a look at the two other headphones you cited. The Phiaton MS400 looks to be pretty good based on the reviews I've gone through but the HD 25-II doesn't seem to be well-received by the audiophile community given the lack of reviews and it also seems rather brittle & awkward (just something said at face-value based on the photos I've seen).

 

[swbf2cheater]

lol not a problem and welcome to head fi, hopefully we can open the door to nice audio experiences for you

 
the Hd25-ii and the phiaton are two totally different sounding headphone, both are just great and the top 2 best portable sets you can get, in my opinion.
 
I recommended the phiaton because its become my personal favorite set, and you can get it for $160 or so on ebay.  It handles everything, almost every genre well and its clarity is top tier, its got great bass and is pretty comfortable, as well as isolating pretty well.  All these things in one set is very hard to find.  When someone asks for a great portable set for a higher budget, I will toss the HD25-ii or the Phiaton MS400 now.  But if i had to recommend other sets, I would say take a look at liljokers topic, hes got a HUGE listing of sets hes reviewed.  Its the best place to start off and see what is highly rated and what isnt for portable sets.  Near the bottom of this link is a chart that i very much agree with.  
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/433318/shootout-49-portable-headphones-compared-earsquake-pixi-and-philips-shl1600-added-10-01
 
There is also the very highly loved Audio Technica ATH-ESW9, possibly a used ESW10 and just beware of fakes, best to ask around the for sale forums for a used set.  ( both are upwards of 300$ + ) On a final note, two things are important for you to know.  First is that these are just recommendations, if you have your eye on something and its said to be good, go for it.  Dont let anyone sway you away.  So if you really like the PXC450 and it does something for you, go for it.  The second as i said earlier is that they use the HD595 drivers, its the closed back version of the sennheiser HD595, which is a good set.  Its not a set people use for music, well the majority anyway.  Its a set people use for gaming and pinpoint accuracy, for soundstage needs.  It lacks bass.  But, it was designed for isolation and portable usage.  So you could be very right in going for that.  Especially if you are on a plane or will be in loud places.  But for audio quality, you can do much better for that type of price, they sound NOTHING like the Hd650...not even remotely close :\ 
 
 
hope that helps
 
-mike

 

[s0126471]

The PXC450 is good, but these days its not the best value in its range anymore - its 3 years old or thereabouts.  I still do use mine, but it does not leave my room anymore, as I have better ones (namely the Bose QC15 and in ear Audio technica ATH-CK100).
 
In the $300-400 range, how about the Bose Quietcomfort 15?  They are probably better noise canceling headphones than the PXC450.  The best value for money in the noise canceling genre is Goldring NS1000, which can be obtained for about $80 (GBP 50.00).

 

[EZlnk]

Quote:

The PXC450 is good, but these days its not the best value in its range anymore - its 3 years old or thereabouts.  I still do use mine, but it does not leave my room anymore, as I have better ones (namely the Bose QC15 and in ear Audio technica ATH-CK100).
 
In the $300-400 range, how about the Bose Quietcomfort 15?  They are probably better noise canceling headphones than the PXC450.  The best value for money in the noise canceling genre is Goldring NS1000, which can be obtained for about $80 (GBP 50.00).

Hey,
 
First of all I own the PXC 450 and i'm verry happy with them. I'd have to disagree with s0126471 though about them being inferior to the QC15 in terms of noise canceling. They're really top of the line noise canceling for headsets. I find them very comfortable, i wear them for very long periods of time and i've never had to take them off (this issue happened at times with the Bose QC3 when i used to wear them)
 
However, it's true that they are far from being the best value for money. Noise canceling headset can't really match up to regular headsets in terms of sound quality. (i got em for cheap when the British pound was low vs the Euro so it wasn't an issue).
 
If you're interested in noise isolation, have you considered IEMs? in the $300 - $400 price range you can get some excelent IEMs with possibly better noise isolation. A while back i used to own a pair of Sure, fantastic noise isolation, you can't hear anything if you're on the plane or subway for instance. To be honest i find the isolation superior to active noise canceling but that's my opinion. You might find them less comfortable then headsets though.

 

[s0126471]

Quote:

 
I'd have to disagree with s0126471 though about them being inferior to the QC15 in terms of noise canceling.
 

 
I never said they were inferior.  I said the QC15 'are probably better' than the PXC450.  I own both, and while noise canceling on both are good, I've never declared a clear winner in terms of noise canceling between the QC15's and PXC450

 

 

[Skylab]

I actually tried both the Senn PXC 450 and 350, and preferred the 350. But I'm not real all that happy with them, either, even though I've kept them well over a year. They sound good, but the ear cups are So big that if you move your head much you lose the seal, and this the benefit of the NC. Honestly they were only marginally better sounding than the Audio Technica ANC7, which is much cheaper and has just as good NC.

 

[EZlnk]

 
Quote:

 
I never said they were inferior.  I said the QC15 'are probably better' than the PXC450.  I own both, and while noise canceling on both are good, I've never declared a clear winner in terms of noise canceling between the QC15's and PXC450

 

U're right, my bad

 
Quote:

I actually tried both the Senn PXC 450 and 350, and preferred the 350. But I'm not real all that happy with them, either, even though I've kept them well over a year. They sound good, but the ear cups are So big that if you move your head much you lose the seal, and this the benefit of the NC. Honestly they were only marginally better sounding than the Audio Technica ANC7, which is much cheaper and has just as good NC.

I only have this probleme with the seal when I eat. Since the earcups are so big (I like that though) they cover a bit of my Jaw which moves when I eat, thus breaking the seal and producing awkward sound. But not a biggie at all though since i'm not always eating. I don't however have this probleme when moving, even if I shake my head, they fit very well