[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asr /img/forum/go_quote.gif Awesome, looking forward to your eventual review! Need-to-know question: what's your current amp reference and setup?

All my gear is in my sig, but the Apache will get compared primarily to the Meier Audio Corda Opera, which I think very, very highly of. I will use it with all my sources, including my balanced Moon phono preamp. And I will listen with all my cans, and also Ray's balanced HD600's.

 

[CanMad]

Hi Skylab,
Can you evaluate it as a pre-amp too? I want to use it this way with my Musical Fidelity A5CR and AKG K1Ks.

Even better would be if you can try it with some K1Ks

Thanks

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CanMad /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi Skylab, Can you evaluate it as a pre-amp too? I want to use it this way with my Musical Fidelity A5CR and AKG K1Ks. Even better would be if you can try it with some K1Ks Thanks

I will be evaluating it as a preamp, running fully balanced between my phono preamp and my Sunfire power amp, all of which are balanced.

No can do on the K1K's, though, sorry...

 

[chris_ah1]

What is the point of a pre-amp in this case?
Is that if you want to output the system's sound on speakers which the apache obviously couldn't power?

 

[nfusion770]

Really looking forward to your impressions of the Apache vs Opera. I was pondering a GS-X before happening across the Opera, now I'm considering the GS-X or Apache- pending reviews that is.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris_ah1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What is the point of a pre-amp in this case? Is that if you want to output the system's sound on speakers which the apache obviously couldn't power?

Well...yes. The Apache is really 2 devices - a full function balanced preamp with 2 balanced and 2 unbalanced inputs and one pair of each type of output. The Apache can also be used as a headphone amplifier, and there is a switch on the front panel to toggle between preamp and headphone amp (something I wish the Opera had).

A lot of high-end headphone amps (like the Opera) are also usable as very good preamps.

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris_ah1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What is the point of a pre-amp in this case? Is that if you want to output the system's sound on speakers which the apache obviously couldn't power?

Any headphone amp can be used as a pre-amp with one or 2 inputs (depending on the amp) with a 1/4" to rca adapter.
But this and other headphone amps such as the Zana Deux and the Cary 300SEI have a topology for use as a separate speaker system pre-amp.
This way, you can have it hooked up in your home 2 channel system to a poweramp for the speakers (you don't use the pre to power the speakers) and have the option for multiple inputs (tuner, TT, CDP) and have a darn good headphone amp in the chain, instead of using the crappy one that comes with a receiver.

If you don't have a speaker system and also need a pre-amp, these are not the components for you.

 

[chris_ah1]

Ok, making more sense now.

I have a speaker cinema setup at home with some B&Ws and a denon amp and a rotel amp for the ceiling speakers in other rooms, so yes, it would be nifty to add a pre-amp to that setup because currently it's just the denon dvd player+ computer + tuner + tv going into the denon amp (receiver?) and then out from that into two zones - one for speakers in the room, one for the rotel.

I never use it for headphone listening though because the speakers really do sound good and I'm rarely there to use it anymore full stop as I really designed it for my dad.

So now I've thought about it, when I do move out and make a new AV setup with the money I earn for myself, I guess this apache would be really handy - flick a switch to put my source onto the speakers. Push a switch to get lovely headphone sound.

Oh one day.....one day.

I just want to see what all this balanced b*llcr*p is all about

Then I move onto HE60/modest electrostatics (sod the HE90).

 

[hansel_ng]

let us know how it compares with the Lisa III too please. Obviously there is a huge price and size difference but would still be fun to have an idea.

 

[Fafner]

Any anticipation on how it compares to the Opera?

 

[music_man]

i would love to compare it to the presonus cs. seriously.

music_man

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fafner /img/forum/go_quote.gif Any anticipation on how it compares to the Opera?

Let me first say that the Opera is a fantastic amp, which I adore, and will be the heart of my office listening system for years to come.

That sais, the Apache is simultaneously warmer AND more detailed, a rare and difficult trick. It has a wider soundstage, with better image specificity. And it has an uncanny attack to things like plucked strings and percussion instruments. These differences are small, but noticable.

So while I still think incredibly highly of the Opera, and that it is among the very best headphone amps there are, and with its built in excellent DAC is a tremendous bargain, the Apache does sound somewhat better IMO.

 

[Morph201]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let me first say that the Opera is a fantastic amp, which I adore, and will be the heart of my office listening system for years to come. That sais, the Apache is simultaneously warmer AND more detailed, a rare and difficult trick. It has a wider soundstage, with better image specificity. And it has an uncanny attack to things like plucked strings and percussion instruments. These differences are small, but noticable. So while I still think incredibly highly of the Opera, and that it is among the very best headphone amps there are, and with its built in excellent DAC is a tremendous bargain, the Apache does sound somewhat better IMO.

Aren't the two amps in different leagues? The Apache weighs in at 3x the price of the Opera.... not a fair comparison...

Even a semi apples to apples comparison with the ANALOG only version of the Opera the cost of the Apache is now over 4x the price of the Opera.. (??)
But, my interest is how much of a percentage improvement would you estimate the 3,000 amp to be?

 

[Skylab]

I agree, Morph. I would not consider the comparison fair. The Apache is 3x the price as you indicate, and the differences are small. For me they are meaningful, but I consider the Opera to be the FAR better value, and for most people even $1K on a headphone amp is too much, much less $2500-$3K! But I was asked about the differences I hear, and that is what I hear.

 

[Morph201]

I understand what you're saying, but what I don't get is what people are expecting to hear (i.e. my $1k amp is keeping pace with a $3k amp???)... Especially when you're dealing with reputable dealers such as Ray.., you KNOW moving up in price is going to garner further sonic gains\improvements, whether the gains justify the increase is cost is a personal choice, but you know the gain(s) are going to be there..

Did you listen to this at Ray's place? I'm sure a source such as a meridian, naim, etc.. would be needed to fully appreciate the apache's ability?