Rational reasons to love vinyl
Jun 30, 2015 at 9:06 PM Post #211 of 612
I'm telling you, the fuukking CD sounds bright and thin.These are real differences than anyone can hear. The LP was recorded in 1981, CD in 1999.  I got some LPs that I only had heard in the CD version but when I got the LP version I was very surprised of what I was missing.


Great. But that doesn't have anything inherently to do with digital audio. And that you can't grasp that simple concept should be ample warning to anyone thinking of engaging you in discussion.



se
 
Jun 30, 2015 at 9:15 PM Post #212 of 612
People like him simply aren't capable of grasping that simple concept. It's like arguing with those who believe the earth is only 6,000 years old and dinosaurs co-existed with humans. It's just a waste of time when people are rigid in their beliefs based on myth.

se


To each its own, you are not going to convince me ever that a CD sounds better than a LP nor I will convince you ever that the LP sounds better that the bright and thin CD.  We definitely hear differently. That's ok though.
 
Jun 30, 2015 at 9:22 PM Post #213 of 612
   
Actually, the evidence above sheds absolutely no light on the issue of whether the content at any frequency on any recording is noise, distortion, or music.
 
The reason is that no reliable reference that we can analyze to determine what the recording should contain seems to have been provided.
 
Without a reliable reference, it is all just speculation.

I provided a comparison with the CD version of the recording, using a segment (a single note) which was not loud enough to suffer the compression that affects that CD master.  So the black spectrum is the reference, the red is the vinyl which compares to it.  You can see that the high frequency band from 13-15 kHz spectrum matches the peaks reasonably well, which shows that the vinyl sound in that band will be substantially similar to the digital gold standard.  Remember I'm with you, Arny, I'm a scientist who knows that the digital playback should be a gold standard against which the vinyl can be judged.  I already established much earlier in the thread that the only clear difference between the CD and LP masters of this particular recording is the amount of compression.  This particular segment of the recording which I analyzed should be relatively unaffected by the compression process because it is nowhere near the peak amplitude overall.  
 
I think that here in the sound science forum, it's nice to provide some analysis to buttress what we're saying.  I'm seeing a lot of theoretical arguments about the superiority of digital, none of which I would dispute.  Yet I'm the only contributor who has gone to the trouble of analyzing real world recordings on CD and vinyl and seeing where the chips fall.  Reality bites, as they say.  I don't wish to read anymore posts that don't provide an analysis of specific data on specific CDs and records.  As they say in my favorite auto forum, "this thread is useless without pictures."  And I don't mean pictures of theory, test disks etc.  I mean analysis of real recordings that you buy.  I conceded the point in my very first post, that CD is superior to vinyl *in theory* and *as a medium of reproduction.*  The point of my thread has been to emphasis that, in spite of this, *real CDs that you buy* are *very often and perhaps most of the time* not superior to vinyl, because of how the masters have been "sabotaged" as you put it earlier.  
 
Arny you were willing to grant that my one example indeed shows that there is *one* CD which is sabotaged.  But I continue to posit that this far from the only one, and in fact my general claim is that, leaving aside classical music, 90% of all CDs are sabotaged and their corresponding vinyl records will sound better when played on quality equipment.
 
I don't have time to prove this point, so for now I leave it open as merely a claim, a *hypothesis* for those of scientific persuasion; however I do not wish to read any argument against it that does not show, as I did, actual findings.
 
Jun 30, 2015 at 9:49 PM Post #214 of 612
People like him simply aren't capable of grasping that simple concept. It's like arguing with those who believe the earth is only 6,000 years old and dinosaurs co-existed with humans. It's just a waste of time when people are rigid in their beliefs based on myth.

se


there are actually some who still believe in Creation, not Evolution.
they're probably vinylists too.
 
Jun 30, 2015 at 9:50 PM Post #215 of 612
To each its own, you are not going to convince me ever that a CD sounds better than a LP nor I will convince you ever that the LP sounds better that the bright and thin CD.  We definitely hear differently. That's ok though.


It's not about hearing. But you're too daft to understand that.

Even if the CD was made from the exact same master that was used for the LP, because CD doesn't have the inaccuracies and distortions of vinyl, it's not going to sound the same as the LP. That's why I keep mentioning a needle drop of the same LP. But again, you're too daft to understand that.

se
 
Jun 30, 2015 at 9:57 PM Post #217 of 612
I wonder if there's actually a correlation?

se


Denial of concrete evidence, in this thread's case, measurements of THD for the two media, in the name of the precedence of personal beliefs, is kinda futile to argue against. Like talking to a mannequin, really. Or an indoctrinated fanatic with no intellectual flexibility.
 
Jun 30, 2015 at 10:33 PM Post #220 of 612
 
In paper looks good, but clearly it's not about specs because in reality CD is not even close to LP and you know it.  Even the famous 24bit/96kHz recordings are not convincing. You need to listen to a real turntable and a clean and good LP and forget about you little graphs and specs for awhile.

 

 
With my compliments --
 

 
Jul 1, 2015 at 1:17 AM Post #224 of 612
Have your ears check:


My ears are fine. It's your inability to grasp simple concepts that's the problem. And while you can get hearing aids to help with hearing problems, as a wise man once said, "You can't fix stupid." You can't even understand that what I have been saying doesn't have anything to do with hearing. Go find a Romper Room forum to go play in or something. You don't belong anywhere near Sound Science if you can't grasp even the simplest things people are saying.

se
 

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