Rate your headphones in terms of forward/laidback-ness
Nov 16, 2001 at 10:41 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 53

dngl

He'd rather show hisbuns than wear fur.
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There seems to be a lot of discrepancies as to which headphones are forward and which ones are laid back (ex. etymotics) so..

Going from forward to laid back:
V6
CD1700
HD580
 
Nov 17, 2001 at 12:35 AM Post #2 of 53
Forward to back of some headphones I've heard:

Allesandro MSP
Grado RS-1
Grado RS-2
Sony MDR-CD3000
Sony MDR-V6
Sony MDR-R10
Beyerdynamic DT-831
Etymotic 4P
Etymotic 4S
Sennheiser HD-600
Grado HP-1
Grado SR-325
Allesandro MS-II
AKG-K501
 
Nov 17, 2001 at 1:01 AM Post #3 of 53
HD600 - relaxed without slouching

DT770 Pro - nice posture!

v6/7506 - nose pressed up against the windshield
 
Nov 17, 2001 at 1:17 AM Post #5 of 53
Vert, you say the 325s and HP-1s are MORE laid-back than the 600s? Wow... The HP-1s aren't that surprising, but I thought (by reputation) all the SR-series Grados were more forward than the 600s. So vocals on the 325s sound more distant than on the 600s? Or maybe my definition of forward is screwed up?
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Forward to back:
- Sony V6
- Ety 4P
- Senn 580
 
Nov 17, 2001 at 4:10 AM Post #6 of 53
Yes, IMO the SR-325s sound more laid back than the HD-600s. Part of it has to do with the midrange bump on the HD-600s while the 325s have a much drier, cleaner midrange...which in turns makes it sound more laid back to me. The HD-600s actually sound quite upfront. I just compared the two last night so there's no mistaking here what I think, it is from a recent experience.
 
Nov 17, 2001 at 4:46 AM Post #8 of 53
What *is* forward and laid-backness and how do you plot it on a frequency response graph??
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Nov 17, 2001 at 6:21 AM Post #9 of 53
I will throw in speakers I own/use/have owned too

From most forward to laid back:

Sennheiser M-X4 - Nothing but upper mids, can't really get more forward sounding then these. COmple garbage

Sony CD-180 - Unplesantly forward. My idea of these sounds somewhat similar to the CD360s - glob in the middle of the head soundstage.

Klipsch Promedia V2.400 - Bleh. Far too forward for my ears, the lack of lower mids just makes them jut out. Good for movies though.

Bose 301 - Less unplesantly forward then the Klipsches, but the upper mids/lower treble is exxagerated and it ruins the tonal balance, and gives everything a unique edgy sound. (Back a few years ago when I really liked them I found that the sound systems in movie theaters had too much in the lower mids. I vastly disagree with that now
smily_headphones1.gif


Koss KSC-50 - SLightly unplesant hump somewhere in the mids, sounds more forward to me then HD600 by my definition

HD600 - Perfect!


Celestion F1 - Rather laid back, warm sound, they love to play simple music with vocals + piano, while rather unexcting, they sound very soothing.


Altec Lansing ACS-48 - Dark with muddy lower mids and slightly recessed upper mids, they never really grab your attention

Sennheiser HD500 - Simply too laid back sounding, just plain boring to listen to.
 
Nov 17, 2001 at 8:07 AM Post #10 of 53
Like Joe Boggs, I'm curious too: what do these terms mean?
(& the other terms bandied about, like soundstage) . I can kind of guess at their meaning, but then there's room for miscommunication. Is there some type of lexicon on the web?
And are these judgements purely subjective with an unbridgeable gap to measurable quantities ( sort of like
wine-tasting lingo vs. chemistry-lab tests on parameters like
acidity)?
 
Nov 17, 2001 at 8:21 AM Post #11 of 53
From what I've gathered so far, if I had to plot 'laid-back' it would be a dip in the vocal midrange with both the bass and treble higher. So you'd have the vocals sounding fainter and further away--'laid back' than the background instruments. This is what people told me about the HD600 before, but now people say there's a midrange *hump* in the HD600??
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I suppose it might be a matter of sample variation in the phones... Speaking of which, do they pick crappier / dud drivers for the HD580 / V6? The HD600 and 7506 are supposed to have the same drivers as the HD580 / V6 but if I were the factory manager and my production line turned out a bunch of subpar / dud drivers I know where *I* would put them in
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I'm gonna get the HD580 so I'd just have to pray
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Nov 17, 2001 at 8:53 AM Post #12 of 53
My idea of laid back vs forward:

Laid back would be more relaxed - particularly in the upper mids being the same or less then the lower mids, perhaps a more distant sound, perhaps a bit warmer, and generally a bit darker.

Forward is the opposite - more upper mids. Makes for a more harsh, edgy sound, particularly human voice. Klipsch speakers generally have a very forward sound IMO - love it or hate it. A lump in the mids somewhere could make a headphone or speaker sound more forward because it makes something more prominent.

Generally to me bumps are much more audible the dips in the frequency spectrum - if upper mids are recessed it will make less of a difference then if they are loud, harsh, and edgy.


If you have a best buy around, I would reccomend checking out some of the computer speakers there if you still don't know what I am talking about.

Most of the computer speakers they sell have a rather forward sound, but the Klipsches moreso then the others. Just turn em up a bit and see how they sound (The Klipsches have prominent upper mids and treble and less lower mids then say my Celestions) The sound will really jump out at you at first.

The larger Bose speakers exhibit a similar type of sound - the bigger bookshelves like the 301s and the towers too. Yuck.

There are a couple laid back sets they usually have though. One is one of the Altec Lansing sets, the sattelites are about the same size as the Klipsch ones, but are blue or gray or something, and they are more like boxes then formed speakers (Whereas the ATP3 and some of the other newer ones have stick like sattelites).

The Altecs that have the bigger boxy sattelites have a more laid back sound (Also be sure to make sure the sub is around 1/5 volume, most people turn it to max when they listen to them).

And if you are up for a laugh, the next time you are in a Circut City if at all, take a look at some of the computer speakers they have there. In particular, look at the CyberAcoustics speakers, and see the cheapest 2.1 set. I always crack up when I see it, and laugh out loud when I hear it. Every time. It is an anemic little "flat panel" system that has nothing going for it. The sattelites sound like tin cans, and the bass extention of the sub is, umm, pathetic. It is a 3". Yes, 3 inch speaker, it is in a tiny little box, and the driver is at the bottom of the cabinet. It distorts badly once you hit audible volume levels. A 3" subwoofer. Id bet a 4", 5W RMS Radio Shack midrange speaker would do the job a lot better. But the funniest thing of all, the power LED on this speaker setup dims whenever some "bass" plays. I was entranced by this piece of crap for like 10 minutes by how completely crappy it was. (The setup sounds about as good as my HD600s, from 2 feet away, and not much louder, and no, I don't do drugs). A salesperson came over and asked if I needed help and I showed him the speakers I was laughing at, and even he got a good chuckle out of the LED thing.

Just a a silly reminder that not everyone has audio equipment anywhere near on par with us, even my modest computer setup is better then what most people have in their home stereo.

Edit: Humm, you live in Hong Kong - I don't know what you guys have for chain retailers that have computer speakers, but if you have heard Klipsch speakers you have probably heard a very forward sounding speaker. I was trying to make the computer speaker comparison because they are easy to find and make a quick demo of at a store, and I know the basic sound of a lot of them fairly well.
 
Nov 18, 2001 at 12:10 AM Post #14 of 53
I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but then I saw someone had rated "The Plug", which has one of the most enormous upper midrange/treble peaks I've ever heard as "laid back"?!!! Unbelievable! And the "expert advice" just keeps on coming!

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Nov 18, 2001 at 12:23 AM Post #15 of 53
So Mike, what's your definition of forward? Is it recessed mids, humped mids (ala Xevion), or something else entirely? Come on, Mr. Expert, the people want to know...
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