[ADUHF]

They also have a habit of turning nouns into verbs, like Frankensteining.

It's just one of those hip (and slightly silly) things the kids like to do.

 

[Blackwoof]

TOTL stuff shouldn't be classed as endgame, Since many mid fi now would've been $500 ~ 1600 10+ years ago. The ER2XR/ER3XR, HE400, LCD1 or modded T50RP's give speed/detail that $1200 stax would give then.

The ER2XR is $160 yet outperforms old $500 DD/3+ BA's for detail/speed with a single 5 mm driver.

 

[Malevolent]

How much would i have saved if i just skipped the midfi buying and selling and would have gone straight for totl headphones?

Alot !

From a personal perspective, with some anecdotes thrown in.

Yes, you'll probably save a chunk of money. Go straight to the summit, and you'll probably be pleased for a good while (pehaps).

End of story? Nah.

For me, one of the best things about this hobby is the journey. From starting out at the budget level, and progressing to the mids, then straight to the high-end, and back down to the mids, then dabbling with the really cheap Chi-Fi stuff, and starting all over again.. all of these has made me a very happy and, dare I say it, wiser individual.

Some of the lessons that I've learned throughout the years include -

• Cost to value proposition. A cheap product is not necessarily a bad one.
• The inherent value of a well-made device (it can hold itself together better).
• The nuances between different sets of IEMs or headphones within the same price bracket.
• The importance of coloration.

And probably, the biggest lesson that I've learned is this - I'm perfectly happy with any headphone that brings a smile to my face, regardless of budget. I've tried so many IEMs and headphones throughout the intervening years, and it was as much a journey of self-discovery as it was an exploration of all there was to offer in the audiophile realm.

So if there's any key takeaway from this post of mine, it's probably this - Enjoy the journey. It can be expensive and laborious, but also fun and exciting.

 

[GREQ]

TOTL stuff shouldn't be classed as endgame, Since many mid fi now would've been $500 ~ 1600 10+ years ago. The ER2XR/ER3XR, HE400, LCD1 or modded T50RP's give speed/detail that $1200 stax would give then.

The ER2XR is $160 yet outperforms old $500 DD/3+ BA's for detail/speed with a single 5 mm driver.

Definitely.

Although I would say this has always been relevant, even to a vintage headphone enthusiast like me. My personal "end-game" is almost 30 years old, and among my 'end-game' headphones are a couple over 40 years old.
Granted, there really aren't many people interested in old headphones, and even fewer vintage headphones that actually still sound great by modern standards, but whatever sounds best to you, or ends up being your favourite could come from any price point and is a matter of subjective taste.

 

[IEMusic]

TOTL stuff shouldn't be classed as endgame, Since many mid fi now would've been $500 ~ 1600 10+ years ago. The ER2XR/ER3XR, HE400, LCD1 or modded T50RP's give speed/detail that $1200 stax would give then.

The ER2XR is $160 yet outperforms old $500 DD/3+ BA's for detail/speed with a single 5 mm driver.

I agree. “TOTL“ and “End-game” are 2 completely separate and unrelated descriptors. There are plenty of expensive “TOTL” IEMs that many, myself included, would never consider our end-game products. There are also several much more affordable products that many do consider their “end-game”. An end-game item is an extremely individual, and probably for most of us, theoretical item. As has been discussed, for most of us, it’s all a out the journey, there is no actual end-game.

 

[Blackwoof]

Definitely.

Although I would say this has always been relevant, even to a vintage headphone enthusiast like me. My personal "end-game" is almost 30 years old, and among my 'end-game' headphones are a couple over 40 years old.
Granted, there really aren't many people interested in old headphones, and even fewer vintage headphones that actually still sound great by modern standards, but whatever sounds best to you, or ends up being your favourite could come from any price point and is a matter of subjective taste.

Some vintage headphones can still rival current stuff like 70s Stax or the 90s ER4S.

I agree. “TOTL“ and “End-game” are 2 completely separate and unrelated descriptors. There are plenty of expensive “TOTL” IEMs that many, myself included, would never consider our end-game products. There are also several much more affordable products that many do consider their “end-game”. An end-game item is an extremely individual, and probably for most of us, theoretical item. As has been discussed, for most of us, it’s all a out the journey, there is no actual end-game.

TOTL get's harder to pick, When EQ/DSP is brought in. The Audeze LCD1, HE400I, ER3XR can be tweaked to any taste or fix some issues.

The AKG 712 pro still rivals the HD800S for wide 3D sound without DSP stuff.

 

[Whazzzup]

I don't shuffle but i did set limits, and went to the limit right away. smartest move i have done. no turn over really except maybe my iem sure 846 which is a fine iem, just slightly vailed so upgraded to noble encore. other than that enjoyed my gear for 4-7 years now.

 

[GREQ]

The AKG 712 pro still rivals the HD800S for wide 3D sound without DSP stuff.

Without DSP they get smoked by the DSP on the vintage Sony VIP-1000 system.
They have a gyroscope inside the headphone that even 'tracks' your head movement so the 'stereo field' it mimics remains in the same theoretical location.
It's quite an unreal experience listening to these. Several times I thought I had left the speakers on

Sony was really pushing the DSP innovation with that thing.
It was the first of it's kind in 1994 - https://www.sony.net/Products/vpt/overview/

I'm not saying DSP is better than 'soundstage psycho-acoustics' it's all just good fun.

 

[Malevolent]

I agree. “TOTL“ and “End-game” are 2 completely separate and unrelated descriptors. There are plenty of expensive “TOTL” IEMs that many, myself included, would never consider our end-game products. There are also several much more affordable products that many do consider their “end-game”. An end-game item is an extremely individual, and probably for most of us, theoretical item. As has been discussed, for most of us, it’s all a out the journey, there is no actual end-game.

Agreed. The 2 terms are not mutually interchangeable. A TOTL is an objectively great performer, hovering at the pinnacle in terms of price. Conversely, an endgame is a wholly subjective affair.

 

[Whazzzup]

End game is where I’m at, it just means you are done. Utility reached no need to spend more or try new things. It’s not something you need to declare nor something to convince yourself. You will know it when you are there and ignorance can be bliss

 

[IEMusic]

End game is where I’m at, it just means you are done. Utility reached no need to spend more or try new things. It’s not something you need to declare nor something to convince yourself. You will know it when you are there and ignorance can be bliss

The fact that you know exactly what you like, and have found your ideal product, is great! It saves you a ton of money, and you probably will be a lot happier and more content than the majority of us.

Though, I have to admit, I really enjoy learning about all of the new and different products, and mostly buy new things out of curiosity. If I were not able to get any more IEMs or headphones, I would indeed be really happy with what I have.

 

[GREQ]

Agreed. The 2 terms are not mutually interchangeable. A TOTL is an objectively great performer, hovering at the pinnacle in terms of price. Conversely, an endgame is a wholly subjective affair.

And yet, I can think of a few "TOTL" headphones that are not "objectively" great performers XD

 

[Malevolent]

And yet, I can think of a few "TOTL" headphones that are not "objectively" great performers XD

Every brand has a black sheep in the family. Some just happen to be priced like a flagship.. flagsheep?

 

[Blackwoof]

And yet, I can think of a few "TOTL" headphones that are not "objectively" great performers XD

Yeah quite a few Multi BA IEMs have less treble bandwidth that the ER4S. Like 8 ~ 15k vs 17k of the ER4.

 

[IEMusic]

Every brand has a black sheep in the family. Some just happen to be priced like a flagship.. flagsheep?

Indeed, some sound like a flagship waving a white flag.