Random Thoughts (Audio Related)
- Thread starter IEMusic
- Start date
Speaking about CHIFI, there's a very interesting series of insider CHIFI articles (eg costs of production for CHIFI and sourcing of drivers) here written by KopiOKaya, he was an ex tuner for TRN and KZ, I think he is now with KBEAR and BLON:
https://www.audioreviews.org/chi-fi-story-part1/
https://www.audioreviews.org/chi-fi-story-part2/
https://www.audioreviews.org/chi-fi-story-part3/
Having spoken to him and some Aliexpress sellers, CHIFI actually seems to have a lot of interconnections, eg bigger fish like KZ, NiceHCK and TRN do OEMs or drivers for other companies, or perhaps they even source their stuff from the same factory, and just put a different logo on it. Eg KBEAR KB10, CCA A10 and Tripowin TP10 seem to be identically tuned: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-1668#post-15080690 (post/graphs courtesy of Wiljen), NiceHCK M6 seems to be an OEM of the BGVP DMG, Tempotec Sonata HD Pro seems to be an OEM of the Hidizs S8 and so on.
A lot of CHIFI companies are related too eg Jade Audio and Fiio, CCA and KZ, KBEAR and TRI. Might be a smaller world than we think. It's pretty interesting stuff. But whatever, I gotta thank the CHIFI gods, as they really make stuff with good price to performance ratio, so that the past few years, we can all have a small taste of the audiophile hobby without needing to sell a kidney. QC for CHIFI is still a possible pitfall, but I guess if you buy stuff from somewhere with a robust return policy eg Amazon, it should be okay. Or worst case, one defective CHIFI product can allow us to buy a few more of the same (hopefully the QC lottery then works), and that may not even amount to the same price as a comparable western/japanese set in sound quality sometimes.
https://www.audioreviews.org/chi-fi-story-part1/
https://www.audioreviews.org/chi-fi-story-part2/
https://www.audioreviews.org/chi-fi-story-part3/
Having spoken to him and some Aliexpress sellers, CHIFI actually seems to have a lot of interconnections, eg bigger fish like KZ, NiceHCK and TRN do OEMs or drivers for other companies, or perhaps they even source their stuff from the same factory, and just put a different logo on it. Eg KBEAR KB10, CCA A10 and Tripowin TP10 seem to be identically tuned: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chinese-asian-brand-iem-info-thread.820747/page-1668#post-15080690 (post/graphs courtesy of Wiljen), NiceHCK M6 seems to be an OEM of the BGVP DMG, Tempotec Sonata HD Pro seems to be an OEM of the Hidizs S8 and so on.
A lot of CHIFI companies are related too eg Jade Audio and Fiio, CCA and KZ, KBEAR and TRI. Might be a smaller world than we think. It's pretty interesting stuff. But whatever, I gotta thank the CHIFI gods, as they really make stuff with good price to performance ratio, so that the past few years, we can all have a small taste of the audiophile hobby without needing to sell a kidney. QC for CHIFI is still a possible pitfall, but I guess if you buy stuff from somewhere with a robust return policy eg Amazon, it should be okay. Or worst case, one defective CHIFI product can allow us to buy a few more of the same (hopefully the QC lottery then works), and that may not even amount to the same price as a comparable western/japanese set in sound quality sometimes.
IEMusic
Headphoneus Supremus
Many Chi-Fi companies are closely related, as you nicely explained, but this is also why I think that some companies, like qdc and UM seem to be different from the rest of the Chinese IEM manufacturers.
Sebasistan
100+ Head-Fier
What about the whole tuning thing? I've read here several times that there is a somewhat specific chifi tuning, since it's targeting a Chinese audience which has different listening habits than people elsewhere (someone explained that it had something to do with a dearth of decent speakers in China for quite some time until fairly recently...).
Can something be made in China by a Chinese brand but tuned for "foreign" listening habits - and thus not be "true" Chifi?
Can something be made in China by a Chinese brand but tuned for "foreign" listening habits - and thus not be "true" Chifi?
KopiOKaya has the article here about chinese preferred tuning: https://www.audioreviews.org/chi-fi-tuning/
IMO it doesn't matter about the tuning as long as the development and all were done in house in China. For example the BLON BL-03 isn't a very typical chifi tuning, that's why the westerners dig it. Some Aliexpress sellers i spoke to said the BLON didn't sell too well in China, but almost everyone here will agree the BLON is a chifi.
There's outliers in tuning in every country i suppose.
GREQ
Headphoneus Supremus
I don't think the so-called "Chi-Fi" tuning is something that will last.
If a company only consistently tunes to a very specific formula, the high-end consumers will lose interest.
Almost every other headphone/IEM producer adds variety to their lineup to please as many ears as possible.
This is just good business sense.
The only two significant headphone brands I can think of that seem to consistently follow the same tuning formula are Audeze and Hifiman.
But in that case there might be more to say about large serpentine-trace planar transducers lacking variety than the companies lacking tuning direction.
I'm not saying it's a bad formula either. Large serpentine-trace planars are by nature warm and detailed and almost everyone likes them.
I personally see Chi-Fi as any company based in China. Obviously including amps, DACs, portable DAPs etc etc.
If a company only consistently tunes to a very specific formula, the high-end consumers will lose interest.
Almost every other headphone/IEM producer adds variety to their lineup to please as many ears as possible.
This is just good business sense.
The only two significant headphone brands I can think of that seem to consistently follow the same tuning formula are Audeze and Hifiman.
But in that case there might be more to say about large serpentine-trace planar transducers lacking variety than the companies lacking tuning direction.
I'm not saying it's a bad formula either. Large serpentine-trace planars are by nature warm and detailed and almost everyone likes them.
I personally see Chi-Fi as any company based in China. Obviously including amps, DACs, portable DAPs etc etc.
Sebasistan
100+ Head-Fier
Sooo... Are CoWon and iRiver/Astell&Kern and other companies that are headquartered in and manufacture their gear then... KoFi? That IS a thing, right?
IEMusic
Headphoneus Supremus
If not,
If not, it is now....or Kor-Fi, Jap-Fi, Chi-Fi. No nickname for North American or European companies?
Sebasistan
100+ Head-Fier
IDK, Whi(te)-Fi?
It would be a bit odd referring to that as "oh that's just Hi-Fi" - which gets complicated by brands like Sony, JVC and Yamaha being some of the most established Hi-Fi mainstream brands... And yet they're Japanese. Would those then also be J-Fi? Maybe those national monikers only make sense for companies that have their headquarters, design team AND production line in the same country? Chi-Fi stuff is made by Chinese companies in Chinese facilities, Korean-Fi stuff is made by Korean companies in Korean facilities, but a company like Sony manufactures their products in China while designing them Japan, so...
Not that this kinda semantic exercise is necessarily too meaningful...
IEMusic
Headphoneus Supremus
It’s not, but it is interesting IMO.
Sebasistan
100+ Head-Fier
It runs into similar issues as "authenticity discourse." Is anything "authentically" from a certain country's uh... National hifi-making... tradition...? If that's the word we're looking for... I mean, is Sony J-Fi if their products are made in China? Where do companies like that fall? Or is that just "Multinational Megacorp-Fi"? And does that mean that, like Meze for example, is just "Multinational-Fi" because they're a Romanian company but their stuff is still made in China?
JEHL
1000+ Head-Fier
Have you put so much money into your headgear that the studio's recording equipment becomes the bottleneck?
harry501501
Headphoneus Supremus
As the thread seems to go back and forth lol, In regards to saving for TOTL and bypassing the cheaper stuff, I'm not so sure it would be anywhere near as fun. When I got into this hobby I went straight to sets like DUNU DN1000/2000, Aurisonics Kickers, MEE Pinnacle 1... all £130-220 range, I also bought the AKG N40 which is close to £200. I also bought the HD650, MEZE CLassics 99 early on. All fantastic sounding gear, but then I found VIDALs' website and started chatting to him and he got me into the more budget-friendly world. This led me to sign up on Head-Fi and I've had so much fun since. It's a hobby I never thought would offer so much.
Would it have been the same if I saved up and went for a TOTL £500+ headphone and accompanying earphone? Most definitely not. Would I hear a huge difference in quality, most definitely yes (well, I'd think so)? Like many on here, there's those who can spend thousands and others who can spend nowhere near as much, perhaps get a set at £50 every month or less, perhaps a treat and go nearer £100-200 every now and then. Now, I'm in no way saying those who can afford it are elitist in any way by that statement. What I can say is having a really expensive TOTL (for me) pair would be very much a one-off experience and I'd only have used Head-Fi a handful of times for info and help choosing.
I also feel - from my experience - when I have spent a bit more, I can easily go back to a cheaper set and not feel cheated or disappointed. I still enjoy them and can appreciate their uniqueness and variety of sound. Yes, I can tell the difference between a £200 set and a budget £20 set, but not enough to dissuade me from buying the next £20 set. Over time here I've had over 160 different earphones/headphones, most I still have (or friends and family do lol). I've made friends along the way and enjoyed finding out their opinions, unearthing gems, being able to help someone on a budget find something decent.
I'm not able to discuss TOTL products, but I'd guess it's a world as addictive as the budget friend world (like Chi-Fi). I think even hearing the best of gear would still have you wanting more, spending more?
Would it have been the same if I saved up and went for a TOTL £500+ headphone and accompanying earphone? Most definitely not. Would I hear a huge difference in quality, most definitely yes (well, I'd think so)? Like many on here, there's those who can spend thousands and others who can spend nowhere near as much, perhaps get a set at £50 every month or less, perhaps a treat and go nearer £100-200 every now and then. Now, I'm in no way saying those who can afford it are elitist in any way by that statement. What I can say is having a really expensive TOTL (for me) pair would be very much a one-off experience and I'd only have used Head-Fi a handful of times for info and help choosing.
I also feel - from my experience - when I have spent a bit more, I can easily go back to a cheaper set and not feel cheated or disappointed. I still enjoy them and can appreciate their uniqueness and variety of sound. Yes, I can tell the difference between a £200 set and a budget £20 set, but not enough to dissuade me from buying the next £20 set. Over time here I've had over 160 different earphones/headphones, most I still have (or friends and family do lol). I've made friends along the way and enjoyed finding out their opinions, unearthing gems, being able to help someone on a budget find something decent.
I'm not able to discuss TOTL products, but I'd guess it's a world as addictive as the budget friend world (like Chi-Fi). I think even hearing the best of gear would still have you wanting more, spending more?
ChrisOc
Headphoneus Supremus
For me not yet but I am beginning to work out where I am on the measure of "addiction" to audio gear. However, I first need to work out this equation in relation to my audio gear habit:
Obsession × Excess = Addiction
The scale in words might be:
So Obsessed to the degree of exceeding the norm or reasonable equates to Addiction.
I suppose on working out that equation I will be able to figure out where I fit in on that scale.
The good thing about having multiple budget gear, is that it allows one to sample different sound signatures, so you can see what u like. Then perhaps if money allows, one can upgrade higher up the ladder to something better (but having the sound signature you yearn for).
Just 3 years or so back, we were talking about $100 USD for a single driver western IEM, and perhaps $200 - 300 USD for a multi driver set. That was pretty prohibitive for entering the hobby, and I remember I had to sell my one and only midfi IEM just to sample a new sound signature. Nowadays $30 - 50 USD can get you very good sounding gear, I'm really thankful to CHIFI for that. The issue now is we go the other extreme and become disinhibited, since there's so much cheap and good stuff on offer, we may splurge and buy multiple sidegrades (or marginal sidegrades) in the budget segment. It is kind of a self professed foodie supposedly swearing to be on a diet, then suddenly being trust into the middle of a free for all buffet. The costs of buying multiple sidegrades do add up to a TOTL set soon enough, and the drawers become full of unused budget gear. I've learnt the sad truth that at the end of the day, we only have 2 ears, no matter how many IEMs we have!
Having said that, diminishing returns are very real in this hobby, I've auditioned some TOTL IEMs that were around $1000 - 2500 USD, and they were at best 10 - 20% more refined in tuning/technicalities than some midfi $100 - 300 USD sets. It is quite subjective whether one wants to spend 10 times more to chase that 10% improvement, or whether you'd be happy with 90% of the sound for 10% of the price. Especially more so in this covid economy where some have no jobs/money, and this audio hobby is supposed be considered a "discretionary spending" hobby.
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