[Sajid Amit]

Was literally responding as you made this post lol. I admire your resilience in testing all of these. And bargaining the Susvara for loan in exchange for testing more amps is brilliant lol

I do think TOTL headphone amps with enough power and the right design are pretty capable, but there are only a few that fit that bill for the most power hungry headphones. Think it comes down to preference a bit and which headphone you're trying to optimize for, which is honestly a bit frustrating in itself, as each amp pairs a bit better with a specific headphone. Ideally, I'd have a SS and Tube TOTL speaker amp to satisfy all, but that's hard to justify. All of that said, speaker amps have been a bit of an eye opener.. at the very least there's no denying that you can get really great sound for a far more affordable price than headphone amps. I swear that the $600 marantz (no doubt at all that similar offerings from NAD, Naim, Cambridge, etc can do the same) comes within decent reach of all three of these I reviewed, and that could be a game changer for people trying to break into TOTL gear.

Agree. Yeah, there are, of course, nuances to pay heed to, and particular synergies that work with one and not the other, etc.

And the modestly priced speaker amps are also worth a mention, for sure, beyond the summit-fi.

 

[Ciggavelli]

Just sharing some thoughts on the PrimaLuna EVO 400 I picked up a few weeks ago. Will share in a few threads, since I've asked about speaker amps with each of my headphones in them. I’ve given it quite a bit of time and have done a lot of comparison against the Woo WA33 and HSA1b. Before providing some thoughts, most of the differences I’m describing are more subtle in nature. They’re a bit wider when comparing with the HSA-1b, but still not huge imho.

Edit* I'm using the Raal speaker interface box to the EVO 400. Using the Raal Sr1a -> conventional headphone adapter to connect TC/Susvara to the Raal interface.

TL;DR: the EVO 400 to my ears slightly outperforms the Woo, while doing so by a larger margin compared to the HSA-1b. The Susvara, TC and Raal all sound a bit fuller and more refined out of it. Vocals are also slightly improved. Bass is very slightly improved over the Woo in terms of impact, but is slightly behind the HSA in that regard and* quantity to a very small degree—but the bass is tighter and clearer which I didn’t expect out of a tube amp. Downsides: Amp is huge and gets hotter than the Woo or BHSE by far, which are two of the hottest running amps I’ve owned. It’s also a bit harder at times to fine tune the volume. Also suspect that another TOTL SS speaker amp could do even better with bass overall.

• EVO 400 vs. WA33
  • EVO 400 has a slightly fuller sound, has much more “tube magic” while still sounding really dynamic and punchy, which actually works really well with all of my headphones. There’s also an increase in perceived realism
  • The EVO 400 sounds a bit more open, there’s more separation in the music and overall it sounds a bit “bigger”
  • Very slightly harder hitting bass and slightly more in quantity than the WA33, but this is very subtle. I’m sure TOTL SS amps deliver more here, but also sure it would come with its own tradeoffs. (The larger difference in bass I saw with the Marantz amp and just knowing how SS traditionally sound are the reasons for this hunch)
  • Woo sounds quite a bit more neutral and less like a tube amp. I.E. the WA33 doesn’t sound like it has “color” or “warmth”
    • Susvara: more than any other headphone, the Susvara seemed to benefit the most from the EVO 400. It doesn’t transform it, but there is definitely a noticeable improvement over the Woo (and the HSA). It has a bigger sound, and sounds more refined. Sounds a bit more lush, but doesn’t sacrifice speed and dynamics, which is really important. Vocals feel a touch more thick, while soundstaging appears to be about the same. Definitely the biggest beneficiary of the speaker amp
    • TC: this was much closer, as the TC sounds really damn good out of the Woo. It adds just a bit of warmth to the TC, and actually compensates for the midrange recession quite a bit. Doesn’t eradicate it fully, but makes a decent difference. The WA33 again is a bit more neutral (HSA as well) and slightly relaxed, so the issue is more noticeable with the two of them
• EVO 400 vs. HSA-1b
  • EVO 400 is quite a bit more expansive in terms of soundstage, separation and layering within the music. Sounds much fuller and more refined in nature
  • Due to the above, the EVO 400 actually sounds more detailed as it’s easier to hear each aspect of the music across the highs, midrange and low end
  • There is more bass and it’s slightly harder hitting on the HSA-1b, but it’s less refined than the EVO 400, which was really interesting. At times, it sounded less controlled and accurate than the EVO. However, I do also enjoy the pros here with the HSA-1b
    • Sr1a: as detailed as the Sr1a is with the HSA-1b, the slight improvement in spaciousness and separation makes it sound even more so with the PL. The Sr1a also greatly benefits from the lusher, fuller sound. I was hoping for a major difference in bass, but that’s really just not the case. Again, the Raal hits just a bit harder with the HSA-1b, but the quality and tightness seems better with the PL. Each of these differences are apparent, but not major (but again, being transparent, I would’ve thought that the PL would have taken the cake in this area, so props to the HSA-1b). Overall, with the EVO 400, the Sr1a just sounds more refined
    • Susvara/TC: mainly the same as above in comparison to the WA33 (outside of bass), but just a bit bigger in difference. I don’t really find anything special with the HSA/TC pairing (although very sufficient), but I find it to be a bit better with the Susvara for some reason.

Rounding out these thoughts.. the speaker amp is very large, which isn’t a big issue for me, but the heat is definitely more annoying. It is considerable for sure. That said, the improvement I saw with the Susvara was pretty impressive, and to a slightly less degree the Raal and TC. I suspect that the Raal would have even better synergy bass wise with a TOTL SS amp, but the question is what you’d lose in comparison to the EVO 400 or any other superb tube amp. I’d love to find out, but I just don’t have to appetite to buy and sell more amps.. especially with how good what I’m hearing is. I have a home office I need a second amp for and I’d prefer to keep the Woo, but the HSA-1b’s versatility in being able to use the Sr1a in addition to the TC/Susvara almost makes me feel like the Woo has to go. TBD on that.

After reading this, I looked up that EVO 400 and a crazy idea popped in my head. Could you use 2 of the mono blocked EVO 400 with headphones?

https://www.primaluna-usa.com/primaluna-evo-400-tube-power-amplifier

Can you mono block headphones? I know Woo Audio has the 2A3 which is 2 different units. Also Wells Audio has this (scroll all the way to the bottom):

http://www.wellsaudio.com/headtrip-ii-level-ii

If one was to use mono blocks with a preamp, how would that affect the sound quality? Would it be an improvement over using just one speaker amp?

 

[Sajid Amit]

BHSE + 009. Game over for your other phones, especially for the less bass demanding genres.

What about the Carbon + Audeze's new release? Lol. That's been on my mind. Of course, thinking wishfully that the Audeze estat won't disappoint.

Certainly looks the part.

 

[Sajid Amit]

After reading this, I looked up that EVO 400 and a crazy idea popped in my head. Could you use 2 of the mono blocked EVO 400 with headphones?

https://www.primaluna-usa.com/primaluna-evo-400-tube-power-amplifier

Can you mono block headphones? I know Woo Audio has the 2A3 which is 2 different units. Also Wells Audio has this (scroll all the way to the bottom):

http://www.wellsaudio.com/headtrip-ii-level-ii

If one was to use mono blocks with a preamp, how would that affect the sound quality? Would it be an improvement over using just one headphone amp?

In many cases, yes, it would be.

I have tried the Susvara with Pass Labs XA25 mono blocks and I got better stage and detail retreieval, but of course, this was for kicks. Don't want to encourage obsessiveness in myself, beyond what's already there, lol.

 

[dukeskd]

What about the Carbon + Audeze's new release? Lol. That's been on my mind. Of course, thinking wishfully that the Audeze estat won't disappoint.

Certainly looks the part.

009 + BHSE is a tried and trusted combo.

Audeze has still a lot to prove on many fronts. I personally do not like them attacking all these different technologies at the same time especially when their planar drivers have imbalance and reliability problems..

 

[Sajid Amit]

009 + BHSE is a tried and trusted combo.

Audeze has still a lot to prove on many fronts. I personally do not like them attacking all these different technologies at the same time especially when their planar drivers have imbalance and reliability problems..

Yes, that it is. Although some of my veteran Stax friends (I am not extremely experienced with estats) say that the 009 and Carbon are better for staging, dynamics, and bass impact?

And yeah, you are right about Audeze still needing to prove its mettle with the newer technologies.

 

[number1sixerfan]

BHSE + 009. Game over for your other phones, especially for the less bass demanding genres.

This has been my favorite combo for a LONG time. Can compete with just about anything. Will say the Raal absolutely gives it a run for it's money, but still it's a favorite of mine and I really love both.

I'll get to impressions eventually, but the Shangri-LA Sr takes a very clear step above each.. and over the Susvara and the TC as well. In fact, that was the hardest part of this write up, I had to put the SGL down lol

After reading this, I looked up that EVO 400 and a crazy idea popped in my head. Could you use 2 of the mono blocked EVO 400 with headphones?

https://www.primaluna-usa.com/primaluna-evo-400-tube-power-amplifier

Can you mono block headphones? I know Woo Audio has the 2A3 which is 2 different units. Also Wells Audio has this (scroll all the way to the bottom):

http://www.wellsaudio.com/headtrip-ii-level-ii

If one was to use mono blocks with a preamp, how would that affect the sound quality? Would it be an improvement over using just one speaker amp?

I actually did think about mono blocks at one point, the Woo amps included, but then quickly thought I was being irrational lol. Would love to hear it though lol

 

[Sajid Amit]

This has been my favorite combo for a LONG time. Can compete with just about anything. Will say the Raal absolutely gives it a run for it's money, but still it's a favorite of mine and I really love both.

I'll get to impressions eventually, but the Shangri-LA Sr takes a very clear step above each.. and over the Susvara and the TC as well. In fact, that was the hardest part of this write up, I had to put the SGL down lol



I actually did think about mono blocks at one point, the Woo amps included, but then quickly thought I was being irrational lol. Would love to hear it though lol

Maybe it's best to avoid the estat journey completely and wait and upgrade to a Shangrila Sr.

Will await your impressions and comparisons.

What are you driving the Sr with? BHSE?

 

[number1sixerfan]

Maybe it's best to avoid the estat journey completely and wait and upgrade to a Shangrila Sr.

Will await your impressions and comparisons.

What are you driving the Sr with? BHSE?

I would still say the stat route is potentially worth it, if willing to put in the investment. Although honestly knowing what I know now, I probably would give up a few prior purchases and upgrade right to it. And yea, the BHSE.. and it sounds really great out of it. But I'm going to eventually upgrade to something with just a bit more power.

 

[dukeskd]

This has been my favorite combo for a LONG time. Can compete with just about anything. Will say the Raal absolutely gives it a run for it's money, but still it's a favorite of mine and I really love both.

I'll get to impressions eventually, but the Shangri-LA Sr takes a very clear step above each.. and over the Susvara and the TC as well. In fact, that was the hardest part of this write up, I had to put the SGL down lol



I actually did think about mono blocks at one point, the Woo amps included, but then quickly thought I was being irrational lol. Would love to hear it though lol

I own the Raal SR1a also I would say the 009 is much more balanced across the frequency response and the bass isn't lacking along with impact.

The treble, detail retrieval, soundstage are all better on the SR1a, but I doubt any headphone can come close to beating those qualities.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I own the Raal SR1a also I would say the 009 is much more balanced across the frequency response and the bass isn't lacking along with impact.

The treble, detail retrieval, soundstage are all better on the SR1a, but I doubt any headphone can come close to beating those qualities.

Silly of me, should've realized that lol. And agree with you here just about 100%.

 

[Sajid Amit]

I own the Raal SR1a also I would say the 009 is much more balanced across the frequency response and the bass isn't lacking along with impact.

The treble, detail retrieval, soundstage are all better on the SR1a, but I doubt any headphone can come close to beating those qualities.

Hm. I have a good offer for a 009s as well as a 009. Some say that 009s has more bass impact. Any knowledge on this?

What do you drive your 009 with?

 

[dukeskd]

Hm. I have a good offer for a 009s as well as a 009. Some say that 009s has more bass impact. Any knowledge on this?

What do you drive your 009 with?

I have heard that the 009S is not better than the 009, just different. If there are any benefits brought to the bass region I would predict that other aspects of the sound will suffer in turn.

I am driving it with the BHSE of course. I have in the past used the T1W, 717, and various energizers. Each amp clearly brings different things to the table. BTW, I also was considering getting the Carbon but BHSE is just the pinnacle for the 009/009s, and it is better to just upgrade instead of always wonder (we all have this issue!).

 

[Sajid Amit]

I have heard that the 009S is not better than the 009, just different. If there are any benefits brought to the bass region I would predict that other aspects of the sound will suffer in turn.

I am driving it with the BHSE of course. I have in the past used the T1W, 717, and various energizers. Each amp clearly brings different things to the table. BTW, I also was considering getting the Carbon but BHSE is just the pinnacle for the 009/009s, and it is better to just upgrade instead of always wonder (we all have this issue!).

Sharing an impression below.

Of course, this is subjective and not gospel, lol. Just sharing for the heck of it.

Wrt to the BHSE vs Carbon, that's more a case of different sound sigs I hear, although the Carbon is supposed to have advantages according to people who own both.

 

[normie610]

I like the PL-Sr1a combo so much that I am considering selling the Sus. It's such a realistic presentation of music.

+1 since day one I listened to SR1a, it sounds much much more natural and life-like than Susvara.