[junebug654]

I've noticed that people are recabling their headphones that have detach cords to buff up the sound.  Do people do that with the HD 650?  I've noticed some phone cables that go as high as 250.  Do people remove the HD 650 cables and put in new ones?  And if they do does it actually change the sound quality?  It's hard to believe that cables make a difference compared to the drivers that are use them.
 
Also I've heard that the HD 650 sound "darker" and "warmer" than the HD 600, but what exactly is a warm or a dark sound? lol
 
And lastly, how do the 650s sound if they are not properly amped?  I mean is there a vast difference in sound quality from a no-amp'd 650 compared to a fully powered one?  Does the quality take a dive?  And if so, in what way?
 
 
Sorry about all the questions, but Im just trying to learn more about the world of headphones lol

 

[olor1n]

I'm highly dubious of insanely expensive aftermarket cables, but I suspect anything better than the stock cable may improve SQ if your gear (DAC/amp) is resolving enough to highlight these changes. I have a DIY cable being made for me for a fraction of the cost so I'll find out soon enough.
 
The HD650, like most headphones, will benefit from an amp, but that's not to say the HD650 will sound like an ibud if plugged straight into your ipod or computer's headphone jack. I think the important thing to note about getting the most out of the HD650 is to find gear that matches well with it (you don't need to spend a fortune to achieve this).
 
I suspect that those who are most critical of the HD650 were just unfortunate in not finding that synergy in their setup.

 

[pp312]

As for recabling, I believe this can help, but only in the case of silver cables. I bought Headphile Blacksilver cables without a lot of confidence in a notable change and was surprised. No, it didn't add treble, which is impossible, but sharpened everything up, sort of brought a slightly fuzzy picture into focus, which gave the impression of increased treble. Don't ask me the technicalities; I can only speak of results.
 
I'm not sure that the 650 is warm and laid back, certainly not with silver cables. I find them extremely well balanced with plenty of detail. If you're used to brighter phones, and most people are since most phones are brighter, the 650s may seem a little reticent; but if you're used to live concerts of acoustical music the 650 will sound just right and very familiar. In any case they're one of the iconic headphones and must be heard.
 
As for amping, I'm not a believer in dedicated amps; I've always used quality integrated amps and I believe this is all that is needed. No, using a phone like this with ipods etc is a bit silly and won't get you good results, but if you have a Marantz, Rotel, Yamaha integrated or receiver you'll get just fine results, thank you. Exotic dedicated amps just are necessary in my opinion, but of course others will disagree.

 

[olor1n]

I grappled with what type of cable to get but considering that sharpening of the sound signature may make it too analytical on my setup, I opted to go with UPOCC copper instead. I'm not expecting drastic changes but from all accounts I should discern refinement across the board, particularly in the bass region. I approach this with some scepticism, but if it doesn't pan out I'll at least have a solid backup cable that I didn't break the bank to acquire.

 

[violinvirtuoso]

Regardless of whether you believe in cables or not, you should upgrade your cables last. After you have a top-notch pair of phones, amp, and DAC/Source, then you can worry about cables.
 
A "warm and dark" sound means that the sound has recessed treble, forward mids, and/or prominent bass. Though the HD650 is warmer/darker than the HD600, that does not mean it is worse. Many people favor the lusher mids and politer treble.
 
Though you can use the H650 without an amp, you will not see why they are such good headphones until you amp them. Plan on eventually getting an amp.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

 
Though you can use the H650 without an amp, you will not see why they are such good headphones until you amp them. Plan on eventually getting an amp.

What do you mean by an amp? A lot of people write this but never actually define an amp, since even ipods have amps of a kind in them.

 

[deviate2112]

What he/we are talking about when speaking of a "Headphone amp" is a dedicated "stand alone" piece of equipment with the sole purpose of amplifying the input signal from a source (ipod, mp3, computer etc...) There are as many if not more companies of Headphone amps then headphones themselves. Each Amp has or can impart it's own sonic signature so choose wisely...do your research. The good thing is that they don't have to cost an arm and a leg.

 

[olor1n]

When I talk about providing the HD650 with sufficient drive I include integrated amps. Posters whose views I respect have stated that this is quite adequate in some instances and I have no reason to doubt them.

I'm strongly of the belief, and most people seem to fail to understand this, that it is important to find components that have great synergy with the HD650 and I can't see how you could exclude certain quality integrated amps on the basis that it's not a "dedicated" headphone amp. You don't need expensive boutique components to achieve this. And a good DAC is just as important but people always get hung up on amps.

 

[prtuc2]

Actually I am in the same boat deciding whether an aftermarket cable is worth the money.  $100-$250 dollar for a cable certainly is expensive, if the sound improvement is good enough, I probably will look for one on sale.

 

[violinvirtuoso]

Quote:

What he/we are talking about when speaking of a "Headphone amp" is a dedicated "stand alone" piece of equipment with the sole purpose of amplifying the input signal from a source (ipod, mp3, computer etc...) There are as many if not more companies of Headphone amps then headphones themselves. Each Amp has or can impart it's own sonic signature so choose wisely...do your research. The good thing is that they don't have to cost an arm and a leg.

Exactly what I meant.
 
If you (OP) want recommendations on good desktop amps for the HD650s, you can change the thread title, or search around. Just set a budget before you search, because this stuff can get uber expensive.

 

[violinvirtuoso]

Quote:

Actually I am in the same boat deciding whether an aftermarket cable is worth the money.  $100-$250 dollar for a cable certainly is expensive, if the sound improvement is good enough, I probably will look for one on sale.

Cables are a very polarizing issue, but most people agree they are the last upgrade you should make. So once your headphones, amp, DAC (if necessary), and source are top-notch, then you may start thinking about cables. If possible, try to try it before buying it. If that is not possible, buy it from somewhere that has a 30 day money back guarantee (at least for your first cable). If your looking for impressions, either search or ask.

 

[pp312]

Couldn't agree more. It was the point of my question, in fact.  
 
 
Quote:

When I talk about providing the HD650 with sufficient drive I include integrated amps. Posters whose views I respect have stated that this is quite adequate in some instances and I have no reason to doubt them.

I'm strongly of the belief, and most people seem to fail to understand this, that it is important to find components that have great synergy with the HD650 and I can't see how you could exclude certain quality integrated amps on the basis that it's not a "dedicated" headphone amp. You don't need expensive boutique components to achieve this.

 

 

[violinvirtuoso]

Quote:

When I talk about providing the HD650 with sufficient drive I include integrated amps. Posters whose views I respect have stated that this is quite adequate in some instances and I have no reason to doubt them.

I'm strongly of the belief, and most people seem to fail to understand this, that it is important to find components that have great synergy with the HD650 and I can't see how you could exclude certain quality integrated amps on the basis that it's not a "dedicated" headphone amp. You don't need expensive boutique components to achieve this. And a good DAC is just as important but people always get hung up on amps.

Though there are some integrated amps that can drive the HD650s, there aren't that many (AFAIK). The only amps that have synergy with the HD650s are external/dedicated (again, AFAIK).

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Quote:

When I talk about providing the HD650 with sufficient drive I include integrated amps. Posters whose views I respect have stated that this is quite adequate in some instances and I have no reason to doubt them.

I'm strongly of the belief, and most people seem to fail to understand this, that it is important to find components that have great synergy with the HD650 and I can't see how you could exclude certain quality integrated amps on the basis that it's not a "dedicated" headphone amp. You don't need expensive boutique components to achieve this. And a good DAC is just as important but people always get hung up on amps.

Though there are some integrated amps that can drive the HD650s, there aren't that many (AFAIK). The only amps that have synergy with the HD650s are external/dedicated (again, AFAIK).

Really? Perhaps I could ask what specific integrated amps you know of that can't drive the 650? It's been long established that 90% of integrateds drive their HP jacks through resistors from the main amp. That being the case, I can't think why any amp would lack the power to drive a headphone.
 
As for synergy, are you saying only dedicated HP amps mate well with the 650? May I ask why, and in what way? I would expect that any low distortion amp would drive the 650 (or any other headphone) well, but if you believe in amps having different sounds, I'd expect the brighter amps, dedicated or otherwise, to match best with the 650. That's the only real synergy I can think of, once we've satisfied current requirements.
 
The fact is, I've been using integrateds/receivers to drive the 650 for years with excellent results. The idea that you must have a dedicated HP amp is a total myth; it's simply an alternative to a speaker amp, if you want to go that way. The main advantage of a dedicated amp that I can see is that it draws less power if you're only using headphones, but to me the disadvantage of not having multiply inputs, switching facilities and tone controls overrides that.