[complin]

Have to agree the most uncomfortable headphones ever invented, a real pain on the ears!
 
(except the gs/ps1000 that is) 
 
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then what are Grado, razorblades in your ears?   

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Yes.

 

[n3rdling]

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Well the measurements aren't nearly comprehensive enough to pickup everything and I'm not sure about that list.  If the HD800 is bright then what are Grado, razorblades in your ears?   

 
They should be good enough to get a good idea of frequency balance/tone though.  FR by itself probably isn't good enough, but the waterfall plots from purrin, arnaud, etc give us a ton of information.  What other measurements that aren't being used now do you think they should perform?
 
All the Grados I've heard (SR60, SR80, SR325, PS1000) - besides the HP2 - sounded like garbage.  Not comfortable to listen to even at the low levels I typically use, marble sized soundstage, just strange.

 

[wink]

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We are all deluding ourselves that we have better hearing than anyone else.
 

So, we are all the same, is it?
How come some need hearing aids, and I don't. Some are tone-deaf. Some are even deaf....
How do you explain perfect pitch to the tone-deaf?
No one can see better than others, how come I need glasses and others dont?
Some are colorblind. Some are even blind..... How do you explain color to the colorblind?
No one can run faster than others, Check the olympics and the lame.
No one is smarter than anyone else. Then what is the IQ system all about?

 

[arnaud]

Besides hearing performance, one shouldn't neglect the fact that we don't hear like a measuring instrument and actually filter out / focus into whatever we want.

In that sense, there are probably tons of unaware golden ears out there who couldn't care less about sound fidelity. Conversely, I would be curious to see how much proportion of head-fi has hearing defect due to overexposure (tinnitus, hyperacousis, shelved hearing sensitivity...). The thing is that the brain is so good at this that hearing defects are unnoticable until a severe stage or evaluated by audiogram because we can compensate so much.

If I had to guess who's the most accute listener in the room, I would pick the blind person because there is nothing stronger than compensation. I think a large part of this is about "gymnastics" and awareness. Some of us probably train our hearing in the same way a blind person compensate for lack of vision.

My 2 cts. anyhow...

 

[arnaud]

BTW, responding on the topic this time, I also describe the omega 2 as tonally dark while detailed at the same time, 009 as tonally brighter (not sure I can say neutral, well to my ears yes) and much more resolving and clean than the 007mk2.

Interestingly though, my recollection of the HD800 (not a recent experience so probably worthless) is that it stands between the omega 2 and 009 in terms of tonal balance except for that single peak in the upper mids.

I am using a DAC that's known to have a lot of bass weight and smooth highs, hence maybe why I absolutely enjoy my 009 rig. Having said that, I firmly believe the listening level foremost, source material coming next and source to a lesser extent all significantly contribute to the experience, maybe more so than the amplifier contribution (that's why I don't particularly trust meet impressions). Esp., while the Omega 2 needs to be listened to rather loud volume to come alive, the 009 really seldom sounds fun at excessive volume level (recording dependent).

 

[rgs9200m]

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First off something I've written on Hf so many times I can't count, volume level and power output have nothing in common.  Volume level is just gain which is the easy bit, current is the hard bit.  In setup A you have the lower than normal gain of the BHSE plus the super low output of the Neko which means the volume has to be pushed to the max.  The amplifier isn't running at max or even close to it as any headphone faced with the full fury of a BHSE with a high enough input will not be long for this world. 
 
As for the BHSE being bright, it isn't but the SR-009 is.  If the BHSE really was bright then phones such as the Lambda Signature and HE60 would be unbearable on it but they aren't.  It would also sound vastly different to all the other Blue Hawaii variants and the SRM-T2.  This isn't the case and the Neko also has a reputation as a darkish source so where does the blame sit?  I know the Stax community at large is not happy with the 009 and it's widely considered a lemon, same as the SR-007Mk2 and the SR-404 in the 90's.  The engineering puts all other headphones to shame but they really should have stuck with the older diaphragm material. 
 
As for the WA5+WEE, I've heard that and it's scraping the bottom of the barrel. 

I kind of agree here that the 009s are inherently bright, but, like with bright speakers, complementary (warmish) amplification, interconnects, and power cables can work wonders.
So even though they may be inherently bright, they also are inherently great.
They are Heaven on earth actually to my ears for what they do right. 
OK, they could have more thunderously exhilarating bass like I hear with LCD3s, or incredible layering like I hear in R10s,
but with the brightness issue addressed, they have a great combination of humanity along with extreme detail, more so than the R10s (which were my main phone for years), 
which seemed a little analytical in the way they separated each sound from one another when I felt a little blending to the air around them was more like real life.
 
I use a Stax 007t/ii amp for the 009s, and need to use a forgiving 10 year old Shunyata Anaconda VX power cord on my EMM cdp to warm up things.

 

[johnwmclean]

So a straight wire with gain isn’t ideal for the 009 

 ??

 

[pp312]

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If I had to guess who's the most accute listener in the room, I would pick the blind person because there is nothing stronger than compensation.

 
I'd pick the blind person too, not so much because of compensation but because he/she couldn't see what he/she was listening to and so be influenced by price. I have a theory that nothing makes equipment sound better than a high price. After all, the goal of amplification is a straight wire with gain, but it seems we have to spend upwards of $1500 to attain that, whereas logic would dictate that it should be more easily attained in lower priced equipment with fewer (distortion introducing) components. Buy hey, what do I know?  

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

 
I'd pick the blind person too, not so much because of compensation but because he/she couldn't see what he/she was listening to and so be influenced by price. I have a theory that nothing makes equipment sound better than a high price. After all, the goal of amplification is a straight wire with gain, but it seems we have to spend upwards of $1500 to attain that, whereas logic would dictate that it should be more easily attained in lower priced equipment with fewer (distortion introducing) components. Buy hey, what do I know?  

 
What influenced your $1500 figure? 

 

[complin]

I was referring to people who have normal hearing.  Not someone who has some sort of  impairment!
I'm also not saying we are all the same, far from it, BUT those who claim to have golden ears?  There is much more going on than just sound hitting our ear drums.
 
[size=12px !important] ''What we perceive isn’t exactly what went in our ears. In fact, it isn’t like what went in our ears at all! What we consciously “hear” is far removed from the physical stimulus called “sound waves” that entered our ears.  And because there is such a huge metamorphosis between our ears and our mind, it isn’t reasonable to assume that just because we think we’ve made a physically “accurate” recording of that soprano digeridoo, that our recording is in fact accurate for our perception.''[/size]

Read the article I posted, its a ear opener 

 and food for thought Hearing - Understanding how it all works. http://www.recordingmag.com/resources/resourceDetail/194.html
 
Quote:

So, we are all the same, is it?
How come some need hearing aids, and I don't. Some are tone-deaf. Some are even deaf....
How do you explain perfect pitch to the tone-deaf?
No one can see better than others, how come I need glasses and others dont?
Some are colorblind. Some are even blind..... How do you explain color to the colorblind?
No one can run faster than others, Check the olympics and the lame.
No one is smarter than anyone else. Then what is the IQ system all about?

 

[complin]

Yes I think thats what we must aim for period for any headphone, including the 009.  
 
Personally I feel any adjustments should be made up-stream, to compensate for perceived problems down stream.  The amp should tell it as it is without imposing anything of itself on the sound.  
 
Quote:

So a straight wire with gain isn’t ideal for the 009 

 ??

 

[pp312]

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What influenced your $1500 figure? 

 
Plucked out of the air based on reading general comments on the best amps for LCD-2/3. Of course $1500 is modest. Isn't Audeze coupling its phones with some enormously expensive amp these days? I don't take much interest in these stratospheric creations. I get great results from my $150 Muse dac/amp.  

 

[johnwmclean]

Quote:

Plucked out of the air based on reading general comments on the best amps for LCD-2/3. Of course $1500 is modest. Isn't Audeze coupling its phones with some enormously expensive amp these days? I don't take much interest in these stratospheric creations. I get great results from my $150 Muse dac/amp.  

 
 
Fair call, although the commentary has been centred around amps for the SR-009 in particular. Unless your familiar with a soldering iron $1500 is a budget amp for the SR-009.

 

[complin]

Yes I think a BHSE is triple that figure but seems worth every $
 
Although I don't have any first hand experience with these STAX amps and the 009 I understand from others they work well due to it being more efficient than the 007 and SR-Omega.
 
STAX 323 and 007t
 
I have an old SRM1 MkII Pro with which I have been quite impressed and the SRM1T might be a good match too.
It should be possible to buy any of the above on the used market for under $1500, leaving some budget left to refurbish those parts that may have deteriorated over the years.
 
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Fair call, although the commentary has been centred around amps for the SR-009 in particular. Unless your familiar with a soldering iron $1500 is a budget amp for the SR-009.

 

[MorbidToaster]

One of my music 'mentors' is an old hippie mastering engineer that's blind and his favorite component that he owns right now is a vintage McIntosh integrated amp. I've heard it and thought it sounded fantastic but he can sit there and tell me everything that needs to be replaced in it. He helped my father build his speakers as well from the ground up.
 
I can only imagine what he hears...My father really wants me to take my 009s over to him once I get the rig all done and see what he thinks. I'm pretty eager to hear what he has to say as well.
 
Quote:

 
I'd pick the blind person too, not so much because of compensation but because he/she couldn't see what he/she was listening to and so be influenced by price. I have a theory that nothing makes equipment sound better than a high price. After all, the goal of amplification is a straight wire with gain, but it seems we have to spend upwards of $1500 to attain that, whereas logic would dictate that it should be more easily attained in lower priced equipment with fewer (distortion introducing) components. Buy hey, what do I know?