[atothex]

Please allow me to talk out of my ass a bit, because I basically have no experience with the subject matter at hand.
I was just thinking today about how I tend to chuckle at kids with fancy headphones but garbage amps.
We all "know" that nice Senns, AKGs, even Grados or Audio-Technicas really need quality amplification to shine.
My personal rule of thumb is that I want my amp to cost at least as much as my phones.

But when people start talking about IEMs or buds, the amp discussion tends to end at little portables with low noise floors.
Canalphones have come a long way, and we currently have some very nice (and pricey) ones.
I know the Millet 307A has an IEM setting, but why don't we have dedicated, reference quality amps designed specifically with IEMs in mind?
I would think that high quality IEMs scale as well as any full size headphone.
Thoughts?

 

[Drag0n]

The RSA Tomahawk is the only amp i know specifically made for IEMs.
Ive only heard it once at a meet on my SR80's. It sounded good, but of course i didnt listen to the amp long enough and wasnt able to compare it in enough situations to fully recommend it, but its something you should research.

Other amps have switches to lower gain for IEMS, but arent made specifically for IEMS.

Honestly, i dont know what else would make an amp specifically for IEMs except for the gain to be low, and low noise.
I really dont think most IEMs even need an amp.
Ive used any of my amps with my IEMs, and to lower the gain and raise impedance a bit, i use an in-line volume control between my amp and IEMs. Most of the time i go ampless with IEMs though.

 

[krmathis]

I say its because IEM's mainly are used portable on the road (train, bus, airplane, ...), compared to full size headphones who mainly are used back home (or at the office). Meaning the demand for desktop amplifiers to drive IEM's have been very limited.

In short, if the demand for such amplifier go up I am sure amplifier vendors will eventually start making them.

 

[vberch]

I use Ety ER4S at work. I've used them with great success with Meier Corda Aria and now use them with Singlepower MPX3. They scale amazingly well.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Because IEMs don't really need one.

The entire point of an amp is to move the transducer so it performs as it was engineered to. IEMs, by design, are extremely efficient. An AKG K-1000, by design, is not efficient. This is why a very small amp, like in an iPod (designed for maximum battery life) can drive an IEM and you need a speaker amp for a K-1000.

Also, judging an amp by headphone prices is the wrong way to look at them. Headphones, once designed and tooled up, are inexpensive to produce. The material cost is low. Amps need transformers, which is a relatively high cost. If you want to see for yourself, look at the quantity breaks at Mouser and Digikey. Even if you order thousands, the price remains relatively high. Margins on headphones are much, much higher than for amps.

MSRP is usually pure fiction. Even moreso for "high end" products. I doubt the HD-800 costs $50 more to produce than a HD-650. The extra $900-$1,000 is there because some luxury brand consultant told Sennheiser that that was what the marke would bear and that the HD-800, at $1,400, would create a "halo effect" on the rest of their line. So why would you base a purchase entirely on the fiction that some consultant cooked up?

 

[joewatch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, judging an amp by headphone prices is the wrong way to look at them. Headphones, once designed and tooled up, are inexpensive to produce. The material cost is low. Amps need transformers, which is a relatively high cost. If you want to see for yourself, look at the quantity breaks at Mouser and Digikey. Even if you order thousands, the price remains relatively high. Margins on headphones are much, much higher than for amps. MSRP is usually pure fiction. Even moreso for "high end" products. I doubt the HD-800 costs $50 more to produce than a HD-650. The extra $900-$1,000 is there because some luxury brand consultant told Sennheiser that that was what the marke would bear and that the HD-800, at $1,400, would create a "halo effect" on the rest of their line. So why would you base a purchase entirely on the fiction that some consultant cooked up?

You're spot on with that comment. Higher price results in the perception of higher quality. Mind Hacks: Higher price makes cheap wine taste better

 

[kugino]

i'm in the camp that thinks IEMs don't need to be amped...with one exception, the er4s. i never did find an amp that i liked with the er4s when i owned it, as portable amps were still few and far between then. i had a custom maxed out pocket reference that did not mesh well with the er4s...i actually liked the er4s with the go-vibe (v. 4 or 5?) with the opa2134 opamp...gave the er4s more warmth than the cold PR.

 

[ctemkin]

I agree that a quality IEM can sound good unamped. I stopped taking along a portable amp for use with my ipod because I did not think that the sound quality improvement was enough to justify the hassle.

However, this is not to say that a quality IEM cannot shine with amplification. I use my UE 11s with my Apache, which has a low-gain mode designed for use with IEMs, and they sound amazing.

 

[rasmushorn]

I have found that some IEM's needs more current to be driven to their full potential. For instance does my iPod not give the amount of current my FreQs need to shine. Therefore I wouldn't say that efficient IEM's does not capitalize from an amp on the contrary they gain a great deal from a great amp. The RSA P-51 for instance is great for IEM's because it gives more current than the avarage portable amp...

 

[atothex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif So why would you base a purchase entirely on the fiction that some consultant cooked up?

Because that's just the market. I wish I could purchase everything for the cost of parts, but it doesn't work like that. Items have prices associated with them, no matter how much you or I think they're worth.

Anyways, my point isn't about IEMs needing power to work well. K1000s need power, but you don't see people hooking them up to 500wpc Class D monoblocks.

The reason why we have dedicated headphone amps is that they're cleaner and better suited to the relatively high sensitivities and high resistance ratings of headphones compared to speakers.

Well, IEMs are even MORE sensitive, and it just feels so limiting to run UE11s from an Ipod or something.

 

[atothex]

Bump for my crappy old thread to show I'm not crazy:HeadAmp Audio Electronics
Justin had the same idea!

After I started this thread, I realized I had known that this amp was being developed but totally forgot by the time of posting. Sigh... Now do I trade in my combo Pico for this and a Pico DAC?
Is that too ridiculous?

 

[Bojamijams]

Wait and see what people say about the pico slim .

However an amp is not just there to drive IEM's to sufficient volume.. it also colors the sound (some don't but most do ) and I've found that with every amp I use, that if the IEM has boomy bass, the amp will tighten it up and make it punchier, which is always a bonus.

 

[rangen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif MSRP is usually pure fiction. Even moreso for "high end" products. I doubt the HD-800 costs $50 more to produce than a HD-650. The extra $900-$1,000 is there because some luxury brand consultant told Sennheiser that that was what the marke would bear and that the HD-800, at $1,400, would create a "halo effect" on the rest of their line. So why would you base a purchase entirely on the fiction that some consultant cooked up?

I wouldn't. I don't. But the materials cost of the HD800 is somewhat beside the point to me. I'm not capable of building one myself. And it's somewhat beside the point to Sennheiser, too. Designing and developing the product until it's right, and getting the production process and the parts pipeline right is expensive, and has obviously not been completely smooth for the HD800, therefore more expensive. Marginal cost of production is not the only cost.

Ultimately, what causes people to lay out for something like the HD800 is an expectation of the pleasure it will give them, based on Sennheiser's very considerable reputation, and on the listening reports here. Parts cost, and the presence or absence of marketing consultants, is no part of that calculation.

 

[boomy3555]

I am of the opinion also that IEMs don't need an amp as long as you have an adequite source to listen to. If you are using something tiny such as an Ipod shuffle, you may need to use a portable amp such as travagans colors, Nuforce Icon Mobile, or even a Fiio e-5, to help eliminate low volume hiss but if you have a souce as good as an Ipod classic or Creative Zen, I believe that thier onboard amps are plenty good enough.
As stated above, there is a small group of amps specifically design for IEM,s. Just not many.

 

[justin w.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by atothex /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bump for my crappy old thread to show I'm not crazy:HeadAmp Audio Electronics Justin had the same idea! After I started this thread, I realized I had known that this amp was being developed but totally forgot by the time of posting. Sigh... Now do I trade in my combo Pico for this and a Pico DAC? Is that too ridiculous?

The Pico Slim won't be designed for IEMs specifically -- in fact its power output is the same or more than many portables that people have chosen to use with full size headphones such as HD650 or K701. But its feature set will be most most different from other portables when used with IEMs.