[JeremyR]

  GDDR5 has been in GPU's for years. I wouldn't really call Kintect 2 "high quality". That thing has big issues even recognizing my voice commands... "Xbox, on, Xbox, on...., XBOX ON!!!!"

The PS4 had DDR5 available for the CPU. Something you can't get in the PC yet. And the issue everyone has with the Kinect 2 are software related. There are many PC projects that use the Kinect, and would love to use something like the Kinect 2 instead, but nothing of that quality is available.
 
That would put some of the hardware in the new consoles in the next gen category.

 

[conquerator2]

  The PS4 had DDR5 available for the CPU. Something you can't get in the PC yet. And the issue everyone has with the Kinect 2 are software related. There are many PC projects that use the Kinect, and would love to use something like the Kinect 2 instead, but nothing of that quality is available.
 
That would put some of the hardware in the new consoles in the next gen category.

Well, it is GDDR5
Anyway, the thing is, that Kinect is blocking 10% of Xbox One's power for itself.
If you include the fact that it has 3 OSes [vs. PS4's 1, which would be much easier to tweak] and the other fact that it is slightly weaker hardware wise than the PS4.
No wonder the XOne runs most games at 720P, while PS3 does the same at 1080P.
The architectual choices leave it more powerful by default, and the software/ Kinect decision certainly don't help...

 

[JeremyR]

  Well, it is GDDR5
Anyway, the thing is, that Kinect is blocking 10% of Xbox One's power for itself.
If you include the fact that it has 3 OSes [vs. PS4's 1, which would be much easier to tweak] and the other fact that it is slightly weaker hardware wise than the PS4.
No wonder the XOne runs most games at 720P, while PS3 does the same at 1080P.
The architectual choices leave it more powerful by default, and the software/ Kinect decision certainly don't help...

 
I agree Microsoft's implementation of the Kinect can cause the One to be a less capable gaming machine (if you don't use the Kinect). Still does not mean the Kinect itself is not in the class of "next gen" hardware.
 
Where can you find one as good or better for the PC?

 

[conquerator2]

I agree Microsoft's implementation of the Kinect can cause the One to be a less capable gaming machine (if you don't use the Kinect). Still does not mean the Kinect itself is not in the class of "next gen" hardware.

Where can you find one as good or better for the PC?

Wouldn't it be better if it was a PC only thing then?
Or PC first and once fully tweaked ported to XOne?
I reckon it'd be for the better, wouldn't it?
More use there.

 

[JeremyR]

Wouldn't it be better if it was a PC only thing then?
Or PC first and once fully tweaked ported to XOne?
I reckon it'd be for the better, wouldn't it?
More use there.

Sure, I guess. There might be marketing reasons why it's better to include it with the One (being everything else about it is worse then the PS4)
 
But again, that has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I made a statement that the Kinect should be classified as next gen hardware, and I still make that claim.
 
How smart or stupid Microsoft is at how they chose to use it, is not relevant

 

[conquerator2]

  Sure, I guess. There might be marketing reasons why it's better to include it with the One (being everything else about it is worse then the PS4)
 
But again, that has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I made a statement that the Kinect should be classified as next gen hardware, and I still make that claim.
 
How smart or stupid Microsoft is at how they chose to use it, is not relevant

I am not arguing about that, it is by all means a next gen device.
That would IMO benefit from being a multi-functional, multiplatform device. rather than made specifically to be used with a console [what everybody also calls a 100$ waste, because, frankly, nobody wanted such a device to be mandatorily included with the console]
So yes, it would benefit more if it were sold separately, much like the PS Eye/Camera [though Kinect is probably significantly better]

 

[JeremyR]

So far neither of us has said anything the other does not agree with here. We are just having two different conversations.

 

[JeremyR]

actually, I take that back. I am not 100% convinced yet that including the Kinect with every console is a bad move. Microsoft needs to do something to differentiate itself from the PS4. Do I think it overcomes the fact that it's a less powerful console, no. But what else are they going to do?
 
Also, at some point the cost of hardware will go down, and both consoles will cost the same. At this point, there is a lot of value in being able to tell your game developers that every person with a One, has a Kinect.
 
All it takes is one killer game that everyone needs to own, to make it pay off. That game has never been made, and I am not sure it ever will, but it's not a stupid gamble.
 
What I think sucks without question, is Microsoft not selling it as a PC accessory with a windows SDK. That is stupid.

 

[conquerator2]

  1]actually, I take that back. I am not 100% convinced yet that including the Kinect with every console is a bad move. Microsoft needs to do something to differentiate itself from the PS4. Do I think it overcomes the fact that it's a less powerful console, no. But what else are they going to do?
 
2]Also, at some point the cost of hardware will go down, and both consoles will cost the same. At this point, there is a lot of value in being able to tell your game developers that every person with a One, has a Kinect.
 
3]3]All it takes is one killer game that everyone needs to own, to make it pay off. That game has never been made, and I am not sure it ever will, but it's not a stupid gamble.
 
4]What I think sucks without question, is Microsoft not selling it as a PC accessory with a windows SDK. That is stupid.

1]Well they shouldn't have included it there in the first place IMO. To include something somewhere, should mean that it has a purpose to be there from the start. But no one can really say that about the Kinect, other than helping to make navigating through the OS[es] less obnoxious [but it is like that because it was build around the Kinect in the first place].
So far, there is one Kinect game [and it is terrible] and the rest are tack-ons [a bit of voice command here or such, nothing really useful] so there is not a single decent Kinect game at launch...
Why should you pay a hundred bucks more for something that should have been optional in the first place? It's not a controller or harddrive, it's essentially an add-on that should have been optional IMO. It worked with the 360.
I am sure if the system costed 500 USD AND was more powerful than the PS4, people wouldn't complain about it. But it is both more expensive AND weaker as of now.
 
2]Yeah, but it's the same thing. I am quite sure that even if they will eventually be the same price [though I think they will always be a difference of at least $50 in favor of Playstation], you still have a camera and a weaker console.
If there is a killer app/game for the Kinect then that'd be okay, but the original Kinect has been here for some time now and it still doesn't have it either.
 
3] I think it is a pretty big gamble. It's something that makes the box a hundred bucks more expensive, nobody wanted it and bogs down the system noticeably. If that's not a gamble then what is? Its almost like the PS3 launch all over again IMO.
 
4]Yep, that definitely sucks. I know a few people who'd take advantage of it if it did work with a PC. As of now, there is even a proprietary connector. Not even mentioning the fact that the original Kinect is still not working well with a PC today.
 
Though I generally agree with what you said.

 

[JeremyR]

Just a few comments about your comments
 
I don't think the Kinect slows down the console much. It's the fact that they virtualize a few copies of there OS, so you can watch TV and other various things while you play.
 
The new Kinect I am sure takes more power then a standard USB will provide. So that's why it's not a standard connector. No reason why they can't make a cable with a USB and Wall adapter on it, for a retail release of the device for PC.
 
As for no games out for it, you can say that in general about the PS4 and One all together. This is the single thing I hate the most about console gaming. I have over 100 games in my stream library, and when I replace my PC in 4 years with whatever is "next gen", I will instantly have all those games to play, and whatever else I acquire over the next 4 years.
 
I have a PS3 and a 360. The only reason I have a 360, is my wife uses the Kinect for fitness games. We also use it for parties with dancing and crap like that. We never turn on the PS3 for parties.
 
So while it's a useless attachment for you and me, it's not of no value for many of Microsofts customer base.

 

[DADDYDC650]

  The PS4 had DDR5 available for the CPU. Something you can't get in the PC yet. And the issue everyone has with the Kinect 2 are software related. There are many PC projects that use the Kinect, and would love to use something like the Kinect 2 instead, but nothing of that quality is available.
 
That would put some of the hardware in the new consoles in the next gen category.

To be fair, GDDR5 has been in PC's for years. I never said anything about the CPU being able to utilize it in PC's.

 

[conquerator2]

  Just a few comments about your comments
 
I don't think the Kinect slows down the console much. It's the fact that they virtualize a few copies of there OS, so you can watch TV and other various things while you play.
 
The new Kinect I am sure takes more power then a standard USB will provide. So that's why it's not a standard connector. No reason why they can't make a cable with a USB and Wall adapter on it, for a retail release of the device for PC.
 
As for no games out for it, you can say that in general about the PS4 and One all together. This is the single thing I hate the most about console gaming. I have over 100 games in my stream library, and when I replace my PC in 4 years with whatever is "next gen", I will instantly have all those games to play, and whatever else I acquire over the next 4 years.
 
I have a PS3 and a 360. The only reason I have a 360, is my wife uses the Kinect for fitness games. We also use it for parties with dancing and crap like that. We never turn on the PS3 for parties.
 
So while it's a useless attachment for you and me, it's not of no value for many of Microsofts customer base.

A few comments about your comments about my comments
I am sure I've read somewhere that there is exactly 10% of system resources reserved for Kinect and I believe it was said by of the MS's engineers. That's not that bad but it's something. Coupled with multiple OS and ESRAM, I am sure it doesn't make things easy for the devs.
 
I'd reckon it could be made into a USB connector [sticking to the theme, they are amplifiers powered by USB... I don't think this thing needs more power than an amp does]. The PS Camera has a proprietary auxilary port too for some reason. Not that either means anything but using some sort of standardized connection protocol rather than their proprietary ones would be better IMO.
 
There are good reasons to believe the next next-gen consoles will be backwards compatible if they follow the "supercharged-PC" architecture.  Then again, they can stray back to exotic parts but I hope they won't for obvious reasons. There is Sony's promise of Gaikai PS3 games streaming on the PS4. This is FAR from ideal but it's better than nothing, right?
 
I have a PS3 and X360 too. I bought the Xbox first because it was released sooner and I won't deny I enjoyed it immensely. But I had 2 of them die on me within a year and so I bought the PS3, which has been going strong for 5 years now [knocks on wood] and never looked back.
 
Though I did grow up on the PS1 and PS2 [first Xbox was practically unknown here, nobody had it and almost everyone never heard about it, me included] and I have the fondest memories of them. Xbox was great but once I bought the PS3 I knew it'll stay with me and since I love almost each and every of Sony's exclusive. [it'd be definitely much harder for me to abandon them than it was for the Xbox's exclusive games, which were few and far between to begin with...]
 
Right now, my 360 serves the exact same purposes as yours do, that is party & dancing [without the wife part] and I do play a dancing game from time to time too :] But it's the casual console in the house.
 
I never said Kinect was a useless device. It has much potential to help humanity [disabled people, etc], I just don't see it ever becoming an essential part of gaming.

 

[JeremyR]

  I never said Kinect was a useless device. It has much potential to help humanity [disabled people, etc], I just don't see it ever becoming an essential part of gaming.

 
I tend to agree, but I so want it to. It's one of those really cool ideas that no one has yet been able to do right. I would love to box where I really have to move right in order to box. I would love to use a light saber, learn sign language, and many other things.
 
It's one of those devices you want around, just in case someone figures out how to develop something revolutionary for it.
 
However until then, turn on the PS4

 

[JeremyR]

  To be fair, GDDR5 has been in PC's for years. I never said anything about the CPU being able to utilize it in PC's.

Never meant to imply your statement was wrong.
 
Just clarifying that what I meant was, main memory for the CPU side being GDDR5. We don't have that (yet) in a PC.

 

[barleyguy]

LOL

Maybe because they're a generation behind?!?

No, they're not.  "Generation" is a measurement of time.  You're misusing the word generation.