[Eric23]

Sup Soundfreaq,
 
I actually made a seperate thread for this. here's the link below. =D
 
"Flat response graph vs the real thing and speakers"
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/629869/flat-response-graph-headphones-vs-the-real-thing-and-speakers
 
I was just curious because I've noticed some are quick to point out that a certain headphone with a flatter response graph would be more accurate than say one with more deviation. But I was wondering if sometimes these deviations from flat like say what you see in the PS1000 might in effect be an attempt to compensate for the inherent limitations and different listening conditions of headphones. If that's the case then maybe we shouldn't so quick to judge which headphone is more accurate based on how flat the response curve is unless we've actually A/B'd that headphone with say a top grade speaker. But then ofcourse speakers sound different from eachother as well. haha..
 
I'm not trying to make the case that the PS1000 might be more accurate or superior as I've only briefly listened to them and my knowledge of the technical side of these things are limited. But was just curious and seeing if other fellow more experienced and knowledgeable members would have some nice insights to share.
 
Sometimes I think after I got into this hobby I find myself too caught up in listening to the headphone or the gear's technical ability rather than just feeling the music. Back in the day I can listen to music through most anything and just be completely focussed in the moment. I think I need to get back to that. 
 
Going back in to audition the 3 mentioned headphones very soon. And I'm gonna listen for a long time this time and see which one moves me more. lol

 

[Eric23]

TMRaven, when you wrote "Something that makes so many people hate Grado." do you mean when they tried to lower the treble and upper midrange  to be recessed compared to other frequencies to compensate and have been bashed for that? Or did you mean they tuned theirs to be even more of the opposite of what's needed in the compensation? haha.. thanks.

 

[TMRaven]

I meant the ladder.  Most Grados are tuned with accentuated upper mids and treble, the opposite of what most would consider a natural sounding headphone.  It's either a love or hate deal with Grados, I've never seen anyone who was really indifferent about them.

 

[bbophead]

I'm a lover, you're a hater.

 

[Eric23]

lol. i auditioned all 3 headphones again today. I noticed the PS1000 actually doesn't sound like your typical grado. It's still aggressive and in your face sometimes like the other grados. But in a different way that still gives it good soundstage. 

 

[TwinQY]

Quote:

lol. i auditioned all 3 headphones again today. I noticed the PS1000 actually doesn't sound like your typical grado. It's still aggressive and in your face sometimes like the other grados. But in a different way that still gives it good soundstage. 

+1. Rear positioning and imaging is out of this world. HD800s and LCD-2s just can't compare in this regard. Drums throughout Nevermind are always tastefully pumping in the back (I think that CD was in the store for demoing). Really a surreal experience. Might seem to be overdone if you listen to it in the long run.

 

[Eric23]

haha..yup... that's the thing.... the PS1000 definately sounds good and has that WOW factor. There's attack in the drums (sometimes lacking in the LCD2) and kick in the bass (sometimes lacking in the HD800) and it's got a good soundstage where the HD800 for certain songs sound a "bit" too distant for me. Only thing is... i'm curious as to how accurate the sound of the PS1000 is to top grade speakers. 
 
And as you've mentioned, TwinQY, in the long-run... i'm wondering if I would prefer the (based on the graphs) more flat sound of the HD800... 
 
I think what it comes down to is which one sounds more accurate to top grade speakers or say a live performance. Wonder if anyone here has ever did a comparison of any of these headphones against nice speakers or a live recording session.  A reviewer before did mention the PS1000 he listened to sounded like the real performance during a live recording session. But that's just one person's perspective. haha

 

[TwinQY]

Quote:

haha..yup... that's the thing.... the PS1000 definately sounds good and has that WOW factor. There's attack in the drums (sometimes lacking in the LCD2) and kick in the bass (sometimes lacking in the HD800) and it's got a good soundstage where the HD800 for certain songs sound a "bit" too distant for me. Only thing is... i'm curious as to how accurate the sound of the PS1000 is to top grade speakers. 
 
And as you've mentioned, TwinQY, in the long-run... i'm wondering if I would prefer the (based on the graphs) more flat sound of the HD800... 
 
I think what it comes down to is which one sounds more accurate to top grade speakers or say a live performance. Wonder if anyone here has ever did a comparison of any of these headphones against nice speakers or a live recording session.  A reviewer before did mention the PS1000 he listened to sounded like the real performance during a live recording session. But that's just one person's perspective. haha

The HD800 got tiring after a while during demoing, because of the treble. Not totally flat, but yes, more so than the PS1000s. 
 
I feel like there's a needless obsession in this hobby to aim for absolute accuracy to a live performance. A lot of live performances just have horrible sound entirely. This is even true for acoustic recordings. Not to deter you from aiming for neutrality, which really isn't neutrality, but being able to hear the coloring of the sound that was recorded, without any additional coloring from the system. 
 
I still prefer neutral phones though, makes me not want to buy too many different ones to suit a specific genre.

 

[grokit]

A neutral FR is quite different than a flat one.

 

[Eric23]

Yup. I totally agree with Grokit. In order to get a neutral/accurate sound you may need to deviate from flatness.

Grokit, was wondering, have you listened to the LCD2, HD800 and PS1000? Which one would you consider more accurate or neutral and which might be closer sounding to good speakers or a live gig?

 

[grokit]

I haven't heard a killer speaker setup in a well-treated room in quite a while. I would say that the LCD2 and HD800 are complimentary; I have seen both described as neutral, but never by the same person. If pressed I would say that the HD800 is less colored, the LCD2 is warmer, both are great headphones but a well-amplified HE6 is right in between and therefore more neutral. It also matters which LCD2, from what I have read the r.2 has less warmth and more treble than the r.1. Sorry but I haven't had the pleasure of listening to a PS1000 yet!

 

[streetdragon]

i like grado's tonality, i just don't like the soundstage (refering to the lower half of the spectrum only though, i haven't had the privilage to hear the PS1000)

 

[Eric23]

That's the thing guys, I kind of figured that the LCD2 and HD800 compliments eachother very well as they're almost polar opposites. However, a part of me just can't forget that PS1000 sound as it has the level of detail/treble and sparkle of the HD800, but without the HD800's sibilance. And the PS1000 has more attack and bass impact (mid bass impact). They really don't sound like your usual grado's at all because they have much better imaging and soundstage than the usual grado's.
 
The soundstage is a bit bigger for the HD800, but then the expansive sound stage of the hd800 can be a problem too as sometimes it doesn't seem to fit certain songs. I also noticed the HD800 is more "moody", it can sound great for certain tracks, but very unimpressive for others. Perhaps this is the sign of good headphones that are revealing?
 
I have no problems going for the HD800 over the PS1000 if the HD800 really is the more accurate sound to the original production or more accurate to speakers.But then I'm really not sure if that's the case. I was replaying the same songs back at home after the auditions on a few different speakers of mine (none are flagships or super high end) but I noticed none of them were as light on the bass as the HD800's were. So it just makes me wonder how accurate or high-fidelity the HD800 really is.
 
Another interesting thing is I noticed a lot of people who buy the HD800's eventually end up trying to warm up it's sound,give it more bass or tame down the highs with tube amps and other amps. But if the HD800 really is that accurate and high-fidelity then shouldn't it not be necessary? Because by doing so, aren't we just trying to make it sound more like say the LCD2 or even the PS1000? haha.. sorry, not trying to bash the hd800 here as they definately are nice headphones, but this was just a random thought of mine.
 
I think the dilemma is eventually I might actually own two of these 3 headphones in the distant future. haha.. I'll get the LCD-2 for sure because it sounds the most different out of the 3. The logical side of me tells me to get the HD800 as it's the polar opposite and hence will be a better compliment to the LCD2's. But the emotional/musical side of me just can't forget about the PS1000. lol
 
And TwinQY, never doubted u for a second there bro. Just it's almost impossible to find the HE-6 for audition here. And heard they're really hard to power and I'm really not sure if I want to go down that route as I'll be quite broke after I get any of these flagship headphones. hahaha.. 

 

[TwinQY]

Quote:

That's the thing guys, I kind of figured that the LCD2 and HD800 compliments eachother very well as they're almost polar opposites. However, a part of me just can't forget that PS1000 sound as it has the level of detail/treble and sparkle of the HD800, but without the HD800's sibilance. And the PS1000 has more attack and bass impact (mid bass impact). They really don't sound like your usual grado's at all because they have much better imaging and soundstage than the usual grado's.
 
The soundstage is a bit bigger for the HD800, but then the expansive sound stage of the hd800 can be a problem too as sometimes it doesn't seem to fit certain songs. I also noticed the HD800 is more "moody", it can sound great for certain tracks, but very unimpressive for others. Perhaps this is the sign of good headphones that are revealing?
 
I have no problems going for the HD800 over the PS1000 if the HD800 really is the more accurate sound to the original production or more accurate to speakers.But then I'm really not sure if that's the case. I was replaying the same songs back at home after the auditions on a few different speakers of mine (none are flagships or super high end) but I noticed none of them were as light on the bass as the HD800's were. So it just makes me wonder how accurate or high-fidelity the HD800 really is.
 
Another interesting thing is I noticed a lot of people who buy the HD800's eventually end up trying to warm up it's sound,give it more bass or tame down the highs with tube amps and other amps. But if the HD800 really is that accurate and high-fidelity then shouldn't it not be necessary? Because by doing so, aren't we just trying to make it sound more like say the LCD2 or even the PS1000? haha.. sorry, not trying to bash the hd800 here as they definately are nice headphones, but this was just a random thought of mine.
 
I think the dilemma is eventually I might actually own two of these 3 headphones in the distant future. haha.. I'll get the LCD-2 for sure because it sounds the most different out of the 3. The logical side of me tells me to get the HD800 as it's the polar opposite and hence will be a better compliment to the LCD2's. But the emotional/musical side of me just can't forget about the PS1000. lol
 
And TwinQY, never doubted u for a second there bro. Just it's almost impossible to find the HE-6 for audition here. And heard they're really hard to power and I'm really not sure if I want to go down that route as I'll be quite broke after I get any of these flagship headphones. hahaha.. 

I was thinking of doing a group build locally for the Beta22, which reportedly powers the HE-6s nicely. Want to join in?
 
The practical side screams for the LCD-2/HD800 combo. Can't really go wrong with any of them.

 

[bbophead]

Quote:

 
 
I have no problems going for the HD800 over the PS1000 if the HD800 really is the more accurate sound to the original production or more accurate to speakers.But then I'm really not sure if that's the case. I was replaying the same songs back at home after the auditions on a few different speakers of mine (none are flagships or super high end) but I noticed none of them were as light on the bass as the HD800's were. So it just makes me wonder how accurate or high-fidelity the HD800 really is.
 

I would be careful about comparing headphones to speakers.  Many speakers, even some high end ones, still emphasize bass.  The room can also have a substantial effect on the amount of bass you hear.  Generally, tilted up bass in speakers is what people like.  Believe me, finding neutral speakers (if that's what you like) is just as hard as finding neutral headphones and will cost you a whole lot more.  I got off the speaker merry-go-round at 13K a pair.  Also, I prefer a can that gets me off emotionally.  If I'm not really digging the sound because a headphone is "neutral", then you can have it, I'll take the fun.