[Solrighal]

Look at the top right corner of the PCB, it should be something like "Project Ember R1.0" or R2.0 for rev. 2.


Nice. How is the power into HD650 now with the new input attenuation module?

That was my one complaint with the original, the fact that the volume was maxed for my taste at around the 10 o'clock position. This new version sees the volume hit the sweet spot at around the 1 o'clock position. Perfect.

It also has the supercharger built-in to the PCB now as standard. That makes this new model even better value for money.

 

[RedBull]

Mine is version 1.

How's input attenuation work? Like v200 input gain control?

 

[Solrighal]

Mine is version 1.

How's input attenuation work? Like v200 input gain control?

 
Honestly? I've no idea how it works. I think there will be different gain modules but I'm not certain. Sorry. All I know is that out of the box it pairs superbly with the 650's.

 

[DecentLevi]

Hello @Zorrofox , your recommendation for the Ember with the HD 650 is leading me to consider this Ember when I was just about to get a Little Dot MK4 amp. So if you, or anybody here would answer these questions, that would be great! Also if my question has already been answered, feel free to just send me a link to the answer.
 

1.  How would you compare the (current version) Project Ember to the Little Dot MK 3 or 4? 
       And if one is better than the other than why?
2. I've noticed the LD amp has 2 tubes and the Ember uses only one tube that is larger. Can the one larger tube provide equally good results as two tubes?
3. How do I change the gain settings on the Ember? (do I flip a switch, or do I have to open it up?)
4. between these two amps, which one would drive the following headphones best? (HD 650, DT 150, HE 6)

 
Thanks much folks

 

[Solrighal]

  Hello @Zorrofox , your recommendation for the Ember with the HD 650 is leading me to consider this Ember when I was just about to get a Little Dot MK4 amp. So if you, or anybody here would answer these questions, that would be great! Also if my question has already been answered, feel free to just send me a link to the answer.
 

1.  How would you compare the (current version) Project Ember to the Little Dot MK 3 or 4? 
       And if one is better than the other than why?
2. I've noticed the LD amp has 2 tubes and the Ember uses only one tube that is larger. Can the one larger tube provide equally good results as two tubes?
3. How do I change the gain settings on the Ember? (do I flip a switch, or do I have to open it up?)
4. between these two amps, which one would drive the following headphones best? (HD 650, DT 150, HE 6)

 
Thanks much folks

 
I can't really answer your first question as I've never heard LD amps. People who use them seem to like them though.
 
The Project Ember is a valve hybrid. The output stage is still op-amps but the valve is used to 'season' the sound, if you see what I mean. One benefit of this design is that you only need to source one valve instead of matched pairs.
 
All the settings are changed by simply moving jumpers on pins. The two gain settings are to the rear & require the top-plate to be removed. There are 4 knurled top-nuts to allow yo to do this easily. It takes less than 15 seconds. Low gain has been enough to drive everything I've thrown at it though so you'll not be changing that often. While you're in there you have the option of by-passing the input capacitors which, at least to my ears, opens up the sound-stage just that bit more. This was also possible in the previous version of the Ember but often resulted in a scratchy volume pot as the level was adjusted. That circuit has now been redesigned and that scratchiness is gone completely. You also need the top-plate removed in order to adjust the colour of the LED below the valve. This is done with a small jeweller's screwdriver adjusting the three colour 'pots' - RGB.
 
With the top- plate in-situ you also have the option of adjusting the output resistance, again by moving jumpers on pins between three settings, Low, Medium & High. I use low for my HD 650 & I'd imagine it might be the same for the DT150 too. Your HE6 might need these jumpers set to medium or even high. Basically, from my understanding what this determines is just how much the valve is allowed to 'colour' the sound. On the high setting you're hearing the valve in all it's glory. This can be a good or a bad thing depending on your choice of valve.
 
This of course all depends on your choice of valve too. Some are surprisingly neutral while others are unmistakeable.
 
The previous Ember had the option of a supercharger module which allows the use of high current valves. This could either have ben ordered & fitted at the time or retro-fitted at a later date. Project Ember Mk2 comes with this circuitry as standard so your choice of valves is huge.
 
Garage 1217 will also sell you an adapter which allows the Ember to use the larger 6SN7 valves.
 
I have to say the build quality is outstanding!
 
You'll find far more information on the Ember here..
 
http://diyah.boards.net/thread/143/project-ember
 
As well as here..
 
http://www.garage1217.com/garage1217_diy_tube_headphone_amplifiers_004.htm
 
Good luck.
 
Gordon.

 

[DavidA]

  Hello @Zorrofox , your recommendation for the Ember with the HD 650 is leading me to consider this Ember when I was just about to get a Little Dot MK4 amp. So if you, or anybody here would answer these questions, that would be great! Also if my question has already been answered, feel free to just send me a link to the answer.
 

1.  How would you compare the (current version) Project Ember to the Little Dot MK 3 or 4? 
       And if one is better than the other than why?
2. I've noticed the LD amp has 2 tubes and the Ember uses only one tube that is larger. Can the one larger tube provide equally good results as two tubes?
3. How do I change the gain settings on the Ember? (do I flip a switch, or do I have to open it up?)
4. between these two amps, which one would drive the following headphones best? (HD 650, DT 150, HE 6)

 
Thanks much folks

I was reading the Little Dot Mk4 specs and it will output the following:
SEPP (Singled-ended Push Pull) OTL in Class-A
Frequency response: 10 hz~100 Khz (-1dB)
THD+N: 0.1% (100 mW @ 300 ohm)
Power Output:
500 mW @ 300/600 ohm
300 mW @ 120 ohm
100 mW @ 32 ohm
 
The Ember:

Based on the above, they would be similar in power for the HD-650 (300ohm) and DT-150 (250ohm), for the HE-6 however which is a 50ohm headphone the Ember will be between 400mW and 2W while the Mk4 will somewhere between 150-250mW, based on rough interpolation.
 
Another thing to look at is the output resistance/impedance setting as I have found this will change the damping factor and thus alter the sound, this can be subtle to drastic depending on the headphone and tube in use.
As @Zorrofox has informed me the setting for resistance is partly tube dependent along with the impedance of the headphone.
 
Best way I can say how good I think the Ember is I'm probably going to get a second one (new Mk2), giving my girlfriend the old one and using the new one.  I also have a Lyr2, Asgard2, Teac UD-301, Teac AH-01, Magni, and currently building a BH Crack.  Hopefully with the completion of the Crack I'll have reached my end game with Amps as I've heard a WA7, V200, Eddie Current (forgot model), Burson, and a few others and they didn't seem to give any better performance IMO for how and what I listen to.
 
Good luck, David A

 

[DecentLevi]

Hello @Zorrofox and @DavidA - thanks very much for your tech. info. and I will definitely be looking into it more later. For now though just a quick tech question or two: by "valve" are you referring to the tube connection? And by moving the jumpers on pins, does this refer to flipping a small switch on the circuit board? I'll check out some of the manual too. Thanks

 

[DavidA]

  Hello @Zorrofox and @DavidA - thanks very much for your tech. info. and I will definitely be looking into it more later. For now though just a quick tech question or two: by "valve" are you referring to the tube connection? And by moving the jumpers on pins, does this refer to flipping a small switch on the circuit board? I'll check out some of the manual too. Thanks

Valve = tube
For the gain: jumpers are located on the right side in the back, see below.  The green light is the LED below the tube

 
For the resistance/impedance: jumpers are located on both side of the Ember, right behind the volume on the right and behind the 1/4 jack on the left.
Left side shown below

how this helps

 

[Solrighal]

  Hello @Zorrofox and @DavidA - thanks very much for your tech. info. and I will definitely be looking into it more later. For now though just a quick tech question or two: by "valve" are you referring to the tube connection? And by moving the jumpers on pins, does this refer to flipping a small switch on the circuit board? I'll check out some of the manual too. Thanks

 
Hi mate,
 
First off, valves & tubes are the same thing. Valve is the correct term & tube is the American term.
 
Here's a pic from the manual that shows what David's trying to describe..
 


Hopefully posting that image isn't breaking some kind of copyright but I'm sure Jeremy & Frans will understand why I'm doing it.
 
Changing jumper settings is easy. Don't worry about it. It's not something that you'll be doing all that often anyway.
 
I hope this helps.
 
Gordon.

 

[DecentLevi]

Hello guys, I'm pretty much sold on the Project Ember, but unsure whether I should get version 2 or not. The P.E. version 2 features a supercharger that allows it to use either 6 or 12volt high current deman tubes (the owner told me this).
 
But I am totally lost as to what is the advantage of being able to use 6 vs. 12 volt tubes? (what differences do the 6 vs. 12 volt tubes make to the sound if anything? / which more expensive? / which type of tube is used on P.E. version 1?)
 
Also you may be surprised, but after doing some insane amount of research yesterday looking at too many different tube amps, it actually seems that the P.E. amp is supposed to out-perform all others in this general price range; in terms of versatility being able to properly drive low and high impendence headphones... the only issue I've noticed by other users of the P.E. is that some seem to say the sound isn't quite as "clean" as it could be - any thoughts on that? Maybe a specific tube and / or DAC could clear that right up.
 
 
Edit: the reason I'm so interested to know if the supercharger is worth it or not is because the price difference is $60 more for the version 2

 

[Asr]

Going forward only the Ember II will be offered and has the Supercharger built-in anyway for a reduced price (check their News Blog), so I'm not totally sure why you're asking if you're getting a new unit. I can't even see on the site where it's possible to order a v1 anymore. That said, the Supercharger just allows you to use a wider variety of tubes, there's no real objective advantage of 6V vs 12V tubes (the amp comes stock with a 12V tube), nor is one necessarily cheaper than the other. It's a great feature for those who like to experiment with tube-rolling and is intended to make that easier.
 
Also pretty much all tubes add distortion of some kind, so it's unlikely that you'd get a stereotypically solid-state-clean sound from the Ember by rolling in a different tube.

 

[DecentLevi]

I just received a response from the owner or P.E. and thought you guys may find it helpful:
 
"Hello! Per your questions:
- Ember 2 is actually cheaper than the old SC model. We do not offer discounts as we already sell for the lowest price possible

The new version 2 Ember features:
- Line out disconnect when using headphones
- Input attenuation module for customizing input levels (not needed most of the time)
- Supercharger circuit built into the amplifier
- Revised layout and design

All of our designs can use both 6 or 12v miniature dual triode tubes. This just gives more options for tube rolling. Ember is auto sensing so just plug a compatible tube in and it will change settings automatically! 6v or 12v does not mean either is better, just different voltages on the heater circuit is all"
 
Thanks Asr for your help. I was asking about the P.E. version 1 because there are still some floating around new & used on the likes of eBay, and I would be really stretched thin to afford $350 for version 2 + ad'll tubes. I could just use the older posts in the tube rolling thread to find a suitable tube for the old version.
 
But from this email, I still don't know what a supercharger is or if the newer version makes much difference, and contrary to what he said I can find the old one for about $60 less.

 

[Asr]

The Ember v1 w/ Supercharger was about $365, so the Ember v2 is actually a bit cheaper, like what he said.
 
If you're referring to the $315 Ember v1 amps on eBay, those are kits, not pre-built amps. You have to assemble & solder them yourself. The $350 Ember v2 would come pre-built if you bought one (or alternately you get can an Ember v2 kit for $300, if you're able to build it yourself).
 
The differences for v2 don't really have anything to do with sound, just features. And the Supercharger just allows you to use 6V tubes—you can't really use them without it.
 
If you don't intend on rolling tubes, it's actually kind of pointless to get the Ember. It was supposedly designed to roll tubes. You might as well get the Polaris for less cost in that case.

 

[ericr]

...And the Supercharger just allows you to use 6V tubes—you can't really use them without it.

If you don't intend on rolling tubes, it's actually kind of pointless to get the Ember. It was supposedly designed to roll tubes. You might as well get the Polaris for less cost in that case.

The original R1 Ember (without the optional Supercharger) can use both 6v & 12v tubes just fine. Garage1217 created the Supercharger to enable use of tubes needing higher current than the original Ember could supply and thus expand the types of tubes supported (12BH7, etc.)

IMO, the Ember with a good 6SN7 or 6CG7 sounds better than the Polaris (own both). However you need to add the cost of said tube to the cost equation.

Also, higher impedance full-size headphones (i.e. Senn & Beyer) should sound better at the medium or high output impedance setting, and multi-armature IEMs are driven spectacularly at the low impedance setting (0.1 Ohms).

 

[Johan-71]

The supercharger allows you to use tubes that will draw up to 1000mA on the heater.
Without the supercharger you're limited to 500mA.
If you would like to use 12bh7 that needs 900mA on the heater you need the super charger.
I have V1 but bought the SC and soldered in myself.
If you're in to tube rolling I would recommend the SC, or just buy V2 and you're ready to go.
You may take a look at the tuberolling tread and see if you can find yourself something useful about preferred sound signature.
I'm using a Ken-rad VT 231 (6SN7 octal family) and that's the second tube that stayed in for more than a month.
The first was a Sylvania 12BH7.

PS. Beware of the rolling, it's addictive. DS

Johan