[pigmode]

I get the impression that many later generation tube amps are not extremely tubey, which is to say they lean more towards transparency and dynamics over pure musicality. My amps use SS rectification that helps to extend dynamics top to bottom. Some tube goodness is traded off for increased transparency.



Quote:

SS: percussion, organ, woodwind, female voice Tube: reed, brass, strings, male voice

A&M, I'm not gonna say you're wrong, but that list is definitely too arbitrary. I'm sure a good tube amp can excel with all of the above. That said, the speakers in a system will have more dominant effect on accurate sound reproduction.

 

[dngl]

I still think that the overall design is more important than whether it is tubed or solid state. Both can sound great, and both can sound like crap. Extremely clean high-end tube amps and solid state amps sound very similar (unless they are purposely tubey like the earmax).

Anyway, I think that "real" instruments sound better on tubes (orchestras, acoustic guitar, vocals), whereas "fake" instruments (electric guitars, synths) sound better on solid state.

 

[Audio-Me]

You may not agree with my list, but it's certainly not wrong. There is no right or wrong list. That's generally how I feel which stuff sounds better from. I didn't imply anything more, or anything less.

 

[pigmode]

Are we discussing speaker amps or HP amps?

Quote:

Anyway, I think that "real" instruments sound better on tubes (orchestras, acoustic guitar, vocals), whereas "fake" instruments (electric guitars, synths) sound better on solid state.

When I listen to the DCC discs of Van Halen/ST and Heart/ Dreamboat Annie, believe me, the electric guitar tones coming from these tubes are ultra-sweet. Same thing with Zawinul's warm synth tones from Weather Report/ Black Market. If you think about it, the synthesizer has a rather warm sound through most of its range.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beilin I still think that the overall design is more important than whether it is tubed or solid state. Both can sound great, and both can sound like crap. Extremely clean high-end tube amps and solid state amps sound very similar...

Exactly so!

Tubes and solid state each have certain inherent flaws, that tend to lead to different distortions of the sound. The characterizations of "tube sound" vs. "solid state sound" is a debate about different errors in reproduction inherent in each design, rather than the capabilities of the designs. It can be really difficult to tell the sound of a top tube amp from a top solid state amp.

All IMO, of course.

 

[Vertigo-1]

Audio&Me, your list was exactly what I was looking for...simply what you think sounds more realistic, and on what type of amp. I'm surprised we ended up getting into more lengthy debates about it, since it would be a never ending cycle, as tubes vs. solid states tend to go. All I was hoping for was a list such as yours, go through, pluck out the instruments I'm familiar with, and then mull over it on my own. Believe me, I know quite well the inherent backgrounds on tubes and solid states already (as just about anybody who's been into audio would, sooner or later), most of which Ross stated, and if I wanted to hit the front lines and join the eternal battle I'd hit Audioasylum. Maybe my thread title was asking for the wrong thing...I've changed it now. What I was more interested in was just what instruments/parts of music sounded more real/close to real life to them using what category of amp, and this was meant to be totally in each and everybody's own opinion.

Two lines should be all you need to reply with I think, in this thread.

 

[pigmode]

Your title is asking the exact same thing.

 

[ai0tron]

I think a really good tube setup sounds more true to life than a really good solid state setup... Like record players though I think you have to pay a little extra for tubes if you want to get completely free of their "shortcomings".

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Vertigo-1 ... Maybe my thread title was asking for the wrong thing...I've changed it now. What I was more interested in was just what instruments/parts of music sounded more real/close to real life to them using what category of amp, and this was meant to be totally in each and everybody's own opinion.

Not answerable. You're still buying into the proposition that the class "tube amps" has a characteristic sound, as does the class "solid state amps", and that those characteristics of the class can be used to predict how members of the class will reproduce music. Pick any instrument, type of music, whatever, and there will be some tube amps that do it well, and some solid state amps that do it well. There will also be some of each that fare poorly.

Where do amps like the Melos or the X-Can fit into this? They've got tubes at the input end, but their outputs are driven by FETs or op amps, respectively.

 

[kelly]

When Vertigo sold me his RKV he said they he missed solid state cymbols. Me on the other hand, I couldn't STAND solid state cymbols, for the most part, especially with digital recordings and especially on crappy sources and crappy recordings. Ok, in truth, I just wished the damned things weren't even on drum kits at all... but I heard them on the RKV and it sounded more like cymbols sound in real life and I liked them again for the first time since the CD came out.

Maybe this is just psychological but I tend to group digital sources and solid state amps and processors together as having similar strengths and weaknesses. They're very fast. They have good "attack" if that's the right word. Sometimes I get really annoyed when analog and tube equipment make the music sound blurry and confused because it just couldn't get the notes to the exact right places in time for the next thing to happen. What they lack though is a certain roundness. I think that's inherit in digital things. Because you're only getting a sampling, the music sounds the same way it graphs, like a jagged line.

In real life, things have a natural fall in and fall out. If you've ever done any computer animation, you probably messed with some knobs that handled this for footsteps and such. There's a natural "flow" and smoothness that just gets lost in the undersampling. And of course, that's part of why digital is getting better all the time. We're getting a better sampling of the information.

I guess I'm just rambling. I don't claim to know any science here, this is just my philosophy of the whole thing and where I see it going.

I guess this probably isn't what you want to hear but for me, almost everything still sounds better on the analog adn tube side. I'm just too poor to have a good one of those so I'm trying to approximate it. I wish tubes were faster and I wish they were more dynamic but I'd sacrifice those to not having the harshness of the other side gladly given a real choice. I can't think of a single instrument that sounds better digital/solid state.

I think Stax has the right idea. Fast neutral electrostatics with smooth but clean tubes.

 

[MacDEF]

I think Jon said it best: the generalizations being used here really apply more to the less expensive amps, and more to speaker amps than to headphone amps.

IME, in the realm of headphones, the best tube and solid state amps really aren't that different from each other. Can't wait til the HeadRoom Tour to hear some more of both

 

[Vertigo-1]

Maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree then...

My original thought was that given a solid state amp and a tube amp that sound so incredibly close to each other than it takes more than a week to figure out any differences, it'd boil down to a take on what sounds more realistic where to choose between the two amps. I haven't heard tubes out of speakers yet, but I don't think I'd have a problem recognizing a tube amp in the headphone world.

In any case, a fellow Headfier submitted another list to me over ICQ...

Tubes
Bowed Strings
Muted Trumpet
Brass Melodic material vs percussive material
Woodwinds

SS
Rock/Pop
Synth Music
Percussive Orchestral/Speedy Orch
Brass Fanfare
Organ
Percussion


This is the second time I've seen string instruments on the tube side rather than the solid state side...totally contradicting what I originally thought.

 

[setmenu]

I like cymbols.
And my Arcam 23/stax 4040 /Siltech setup makes a fine job of them.
Not that I hear them too wonderfully recorded that often!
Not really surprising that a few people hate their sound when
played back.
I have looked at the variety of cymbols available on the market
and it is very large with many sounds and flavours available.

I am sure you percusionists out there are familiar with that!

Setmenu

 

[Audio-Me]

Vert, I'm gonna help you out a little bit...

Guys, simply list which types of music/instrument/voices that you think sounds better on solid state or tubed amps.
*change topic to Preferences: tubes vs solid state"

Why do I think strings sound better on tubes? There's a lot of warmth missing, and attack and decay are too concistant, natural sound of strings tend to blend/bleed with its environment, not depart from it (solid state sounds too forward and distinct, not dampened and combined with other sounds). Woodwinds however do sound extremely slow on tubes for me, I think solid state does better job of portraying the dynamics, but I prefer the tone of tubes over solid state every time, and I'm a real sucker for tone.

 

[Kubernetes]

I have to vote for tubes here. I think a good tube amp doesn't give up any speed or detail to its SS breathren, and tonally sounds a hell of a lot better! In the end, tubes are just much more listenable, and isn't that the whole reason for buying all this equipment? Who cares if it's "colored," whatever that means. When I go to a live performance, it sounds more like the "colored" sound of tubes than the dryness of solid state (at least to my ears).