Precog's IEM Reviews & Impressions
- Thread starter Precogvision
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RikudouGoku
Member of the Trade: RikuBuds
jlemaster1957
1000+ Head-Fier
Thanks this is very helpful, this is the level of detailed review I was hoping you had in your pocket. I guess in terms of sound differences, you heard nothing at all comparing any of them off the IEMs mentioned . Definitely the build quality issues do differ a lot, as you have also pointed out frequently. This is convincing.Sure, I can do that. Some of the more pricey ones I've played around with in the past that come to mind are the following:
Most of these were compared off of my 64A U12t relative to the Moondrop SSR's cable and the ThieAudio L4's cable. The Eletech cables were done using the 64A Nio I used to own relative to some generic cables off Aliexpress. The Nightjar cables were compared to each other off of the Symphonium Helios. Players used were the DX160 (when I still had it) and the DX300. Like you said, my stance is pretty clear on the sound differences, so no need to rehash it - that type of discussion doesn't lead anywhere.
- Effect Audio Cleopatra from the EE Wraith
- Eletech cables from the MMR Thummim and Homunculus
- Nightjar Mira & Bifrost
- PW Audio from the Oriolus Traillii
- PW Audio Stormbreaker from the EE Odin
However, my previous hobby was actually in EDC (everyday carry) which puts a strong emphasis on high-quality goods. Because I was doing reviews on these goods, it was common for me to assess build quality and ease-of-use. Machining marks, tolerances, smoothness of threading, and practical implications were all things that I became very nitpicky for, especially because that's usually what separates custom or low-production gear from the mass-production stuff.
Here are some of my comments on the Traillii's cable from my review if you really want to read an example of my thoughts and the standards I index for, but they're quite harsh:
But maybe, just maybe the cable can salvage this. Hmm, I wonder about that. The included stock cable is modeled after the PW Audio 1960’s cable, a cable that is supposedly valued to the tune of more than a kilobuck. Why? Unfortunately, I couldn’t tell you. The heat shrink wrap at the 4.4mm termination hasn’t been cut consistently. The plastic wraps for the respective ear guides have been cut at different lengths. The wooden Y-splitter has stray splintering - evidence of less than stellar workmanship - and the text hasn’t even been stamped centered. And the cable is bulky and microphonic to top it off. Lest you think this is an isolated case, no, I had similar sentiments about the other cables I’ve handled from this brand in the past. Without even going down the avenue of sonic quality, I sincerely don’t get it. This cable does seem to be SN:768 though, so hey, maybe I’m the crazy one.
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I think those are not cables.Skepticism is a very good thing, especially round these parts.
That is not the graph I am talking.
I mean the second graph, comparing the frecuency response of an IEM with a cable and another. And even better, headphones with a cable and another.
My Andromeda graph above is using ifi iematch. Its between 1 and 2.7 ohm. I doubt most normal length cable will give you that level of impedance unless they are very messed up or made that way. You can build up impedance in very long cable runs though.Skepticism is a very good thing, especially round these parts.
Well, that's the most important thing.
I do not doubt that an IEM can have changes in its frequency response to the output impedance of a source or the impedance of the cable.
But what cable has enough impedance to be noticed?
RikudouGoku
Member of the Trade: RikuBuds
0.46 ohm cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001244034183.html
0.15 ohm cable: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001514590570.html
measured on the ANENG AN8008 multimeter.
I don't need to know what cables have you used.
I said that the last graphs illumidata has shown are not cable graphs, but sources.
And that I would like to view graphs like yours, frecuency response graphs of another IEMs using those different cables.
jlemaster1957
1000+ Head-Fier
As a relative novice I want to check my understanding here- from what I have understood from reviews by PreCog and @Resolve and others, it is reasonable to expect measurements to differ if I am told there is a difference in the volume of a certain part of the frequency graph comparing A to B; however, as I am reading cable reviews elsewhere on this forum, mostly they speak to technicalities such as staging, instrument separation , detail retrieval etc. These are characteristics that - if I understand correctly— require user impressions to differentiate. I appreciate that PreCog - an an expert reviewer who has access to all this high level gear- tells me he can hear no difference. As a prospective buyer, what am I to do with the alternative impressions of other reviewer on this Forum, whose impressions I have verified after making a purchase via my own impressions on other types of gear eg DAPs, such as Alex @twister6 - when they say they CAN hear differences between cable technicalities in their detailed reviews? (I refuse to attribute pecuniary motives to any anyone- my assumption is that we are all here to help one another because we love the hobby) At least, I hold back from making a big cable purchase to improve the technical performance of an IEM, especially a blind purchase. I accept that some folks can hear these things and others cannot. Who knows in which camp I will fall? Better to look for opportunities to listen myself if/when I can using my gear at event like the CanJams. And if I do choose to move forward anyway (“a fool and his money…”) and actually have experiences and impressions that fall in one of the above-mentioned camps, to realize that there are those in the other camp who honestly hold the opposing opinion, which I cannot unfortunately on the basis of my own experience affirm- am I off base here?
With all due respect, your wallet would benefit from more skepticism. While some of us make an effort to place our potential biases and conflicts of interest front and center, as well as to be humble about what we can and can't hear, not everyone does.
Spend whatever money you had allotted to cables on a better pair of headphones.
This is mostly treble. The charitable explanation is that people hear the same audio gear as having relatively more bass and treble if they increase the loudness, affecting those technicalities.
The less charitable explanation is that the headphone or IEM sounds wonky somehow and their ears are gradually making efforts to reconstruct something meaningful from what they hear, which ends up being a confounding factor. (See statements such as: "The soundstage opened up after 80 hours of burn-in, and the treble veil was lifted.")
Also, even subtle changes in how a headphone is positioned or an IEM is inserted can affect how it sounds, which can introduce bias when people are actively searching for potential differences. (Either that, or rubbing my forehead genuinely does affect Hifiman headphones' dynamics and timbre.)
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riverground
Headphoneus Supremus
Honestly for me, while I do somewhat hear very little change in cables in terms of sound. Especially with more sensitive IEMs.
But what I mostly go for is the looks
I’m an aesthetics first type of guy
If the cable looks pretty and well built. I’ll get it! I do have a cap when it comes to price though. Somewhere around the 1500 to 2k area for a single cable.
But what I mostly go for is the looks
I’m an aesthetics first type of guy
If the cable looks pretty and well built. I’ll get it! I do have a cap when it comes to price though. Somewhere around the 1500 to 2k area for a single cable.
MeetYourMaker
New Head-Fier
Between precog's and crinacle's, which IEMs ranking should I base my purchasing decision upon? My budget is around $1000, and after reading the 2 rankings I think Thieaudio Monarch mk2 and Symphonium Helios are IEMs recommended for the price range which is what I should look at
Your ears should be the judge for those...
From Crinacle's graph, the biggest difference is the upper treble (>10k). For those differences demo-ing is probably the best way you can see what you like.
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