[Smirk 24]

U12T is a no brainer. U4S just better bass texture and more nature sounding on lower frequency. The thing is the bass texture and timbre from U12t is a most nature sounding I ever get from an all BA set, if not SA6.

i did give this a read, particularly the section regarding the imaging/staging which is something I value. However, I was curious on his opinions on what other differences and values there, especially if it is worth that ~$400 difference. Also, some thoughts on where else the U4s falls short of the u12t!

I’m going to disagree slightly - the U12t is not a no-brainer considering the U4s comes in at 1/2 the price. I own both.

As mentioned, the U12t has a larger soundstage and images better. It’s also more resolving and has slightly better dynamics.

That said, the U4s is still very technical rivaling the technicalities of an IEM like the Helios, and has a fantastically-colored tonality that the U12t lacks.

There are many that feel the U12t sounds “boring” which I think is partially attributed to its neutral-sounding tonality. No such issues with the U4s.

The U4s also has a dynamic driver adding a realism to its bass that the U12t can’t match. The U4s can lean bright so that’s something to consider as well.

Ultimately, I enjoy both and find them *excellent* IEMs that are class-leading at their price points.

Despite being 64 Audio counterparts, they each do things a little differently and have their own unique strengths.

 

[mark88888]

U12T is a no brainer. U4S just better bass texture and more nature sounding on lower frequency. The thing is the bass texture and timbre from U12t is a most nature sounding I ever get from an all BA set, if not SA6.

I spent several hours a couple of weeks ago at e-earphone in Tokyo comparing the U12t and U4S (among others). I agree with the above. Which is not to say that it couldn't be a completely different listen to someone else, it's subjective and I do know some people really like them. But for me, there is nothing I prefer about the U4S, including the bass. Among other things, I felt like the U12t has a much more coherent sound.

 

[Audio Fun]

I’m going to disagree slightly - the U12t is not a no-brainer considering the U4s comes in at 1/2 the price. I own both.

As mentioned, the U12t has a larger soundstage and images better. It’s also more resolving and has slightly better dynamics.

That said, the U4s is still very technical rivaling the technicalities of an IEM like the Helios, and has a fantastically-colored tonality that the U12t lacks.

There are many that feel the U12t sounds “boring” which I think is partially attributed to its neutral-sounding tonality. No such issues with the U4s.

The U4s also has a dynamic driver adding a realism to its bass that the U12t can’t match. The U4s can lean bright so that’s something to consider as well.

Ultimately, I enjoy both and find them *excellent* IEMs that are class-leading at their price points.

Despite being 64 Audio counterparts, they each do things a little differently and have their own unique strengths.

Definitely understood where your point coming from. But I do consider the U12T to be fun, too. It got enough sub bass rumble and punchy but clean mid bass extra treble spicy and airiness at the top end. As well as remaining that stereo imaging and staging. But U4S priced is definitely a really well choice either, just you know, if one day people ask for a end game from 64, U12t is still the best choice there. But if @64Audio , how about you guys release a U12t with DD driver

 

[Audio Fun]

I spent several hours a couple of weeks ago at e-earphone in Tokyo comparing the U12t and U4S (among others). I agree with the above. Which is not to say that it couldn't be a completely different listen to someone else, it's subjective and I do know some people really like them. But for me, there is nothing I prefer about the U4S, including the bass. Among other things, I felt like the U12t has a much more coherent sound.

Yes I do like a bass on the U4s, even though is not the best bass for its price. But it inherited from U12t signature, that’s why I like it too!!

 

[Smirk 24]

Definitely understood where your point coming from. But I do consider the U12T to be fun, too. It got enough sub bass rumble and punchy but clean mid bass extra treble spicy and airiness at the top end. As well as remaining that stereo imaging and staging. But U4S priced is definitely a really well choice either, just you know, if one day people ask for a end game from 64, U12t is still the best choice there. But if @64Audio , how about you guys release a U12t with DD driver

Oh I think the U12t is fun too, it's one of my favorite IEMs. Objectively, the U4s is just a better value proposition IMO while the U12t is the better IEM overall.

The U12t has the best BA bass. I think the U4s' bass sounds more realistic though, kick drums in particular.

Overall, I'd put the U12t bass on the same level as the U4s bass. They're just different.

 

[MudEnjoyer]

64audio made their own unique BA

Doesn't this just apply to Tia?

 

[ducnsh]

Doesn't this just apply to Tia?

Even with the Tia driver, AFAIK, it still comes from 2 big BA manufacturers Sonion and Knowles, but I think 64 has worked with them to produce the drivers as 64's requested. Besides that, 64 also has their own technique to tune the BA drivers. Only Sony produces the BA drivers by themselves (do not order or import the driver from another company), please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[MudEnjoyer]

Even with the Tia driver, AFAIK, it still comes from 2 big BA manufacturers Sonion and Knowles, but I think 64 has worked with them to produce the drivers as 64's requested. Besides that, 64 also has their own technique to tune the BA drivers. Only Sony produces the BA drivers by themselves (do not order or import the driver from another company), please correct me if I am wrong.

To my understanding pretty much everyone but Sony is limited to what Knowles/Sonion/Bellsing can do.

 

[Francisco Evangelista]

Does the Tia Trio have aggressive treble?or can it be to intense? I have the U4S and love it , but I’m afraid that the Trio could a be a bit to much for me … I’m a little treble sensitive! Regarding the bass if done right bring it on

 

[jonathanjiang]

I’m going to disagree slightly - the U12t is not a no-brainer considering the U4s comes in at 1/2 the price. I own both.

As mentioned, the U12t has a larger soundstage and images better. It’s also more resolving and has slightly better dynamics.

That said, the U4s is still very technical rivaling the technicalities of an IEM like the Helios, and has a fantastically-colored tonality that the U12t lacks.

There are many that feel the U12t sounds “boring” which I think is partially attributed to its neutral-sounding tonality. No such issues with the U4s.

The U4s also has a dynamic driver adding a realism to its bass that the U12t can’t match. The U4s can lean bright so that’s something to consider as well.

Ultimately, I enjoy both and find them *excellent* IEMs that are class-leading at their price points.

Despite being 64 Audio counterparts, they each do things a little differently and have their own unique strengths.

Exactly my concerns! Even used, there’s still a considerable price difference, so I am debating the two. Currently, I am leaning towards the u12t, but the brighter, less neutral tuning interests me. Everyone’s thoughts have been super helpful though - hoping to try both one day.

 

[s to]

Even with the Tia driver, AFAIK, it still comes from 2 big BA manufacturers Sonion and Knowles, but I think 64 has worked with them to produce the drivers as 64's requested. Besides that, 64 also has their own technique to tune the BA drivers. Only Sony produces the BA drivers by themselves (do not order or import the driver from another company), please correct me if I am wrong.

Some Sony products use drivers sourced from the OEM Cresyn.

 

[o0genesis0o]

I agree the u12t bass is among the best BA bass, together with IER M7 / M9 bass.

They aren't using traditional BA, they are using open BA with big hole on BA body, 64audio made their own unique BA, so does Sony.

I thought U12t’s bass BA are Sonion vented woofers like Dunu SA6 series and a few other brands.

The open BA is in the nozzle. They had to cut it open Knowles tweeters manually in the past when they did R&D, but I think there must be a better way now.

I haven’t seen any U4S in real life to audition because they are always sold out. A hifi store I visited last month said U4S sells like hot cake. But they scoffed at the idea that U4S is even within the ballpark of U12t.

Of course, the “goodness” of an IEM depends a great deal on the values you put on aspects of it. If you go and say “I don’t really care about soundstage and resolution”, then what’s the point of buying U12t (Or any good kilobuck in general)

 

[DynamicEars]

I thought U12t’s bass BA are Sonion vented woofers like Dunu SA6 series and a few other brands.

The open BA is in the nozzle. They had to cut it open Knowles tweeters manually in the past when they did R&D, but I think there must be a better way now.

I haven’t seen any U4S in real life to audition because they are always sold out. A hifi store I visited last month said U4S sells like hot cake. But they scoffed at the idea that U4S is even within the ballpark of U12t.

Of course, the “goodness” of an IEM depends a great deal on the values you put on aspects of it. If you go and say “I don’t really care about soundstage and resolution”, then what’s the point of buying U12t (Or any good kilobuck in general)

My bad, i thought the Tia driver also used as bass driver as well.
If they are using Sonion vented BA, then it is a great implementation by 64audio.

But using Tia system that means tubeless design maybe have advantage too for bass air pressure

Meanwhile for sony M7 M9 also using tubeless design but with open BA (they designed and developed themselves but I also not sure if they outsourced to other company)

 

[o0genesis0o]

My bad, i thought the Tia driver also used as bass driver as well.
If they are using Sonion vented BA, then it is a great implementation by 64audio.

But using Tia system that means tubeless design maybe have advantage too for bass air pressure

Meanwhile for sony M7 M9 also using tubeless design but with open BA (they designed and developed themselves but I also not sure if they outsourced to other company)

I think U12t only has the tubeless nozzle and TIA tweeter. If you look at schematic, other driver clusters have tubes pointing to the nozzles.

The audiophile series (Trio, Fourte) are fully tubeless with resonance chamber for each driver (thus they have so few of them). The Trio is crazy good, at least to me. Fourte is just weird and trebly, regardless of special editions.

 

[CharlyBrown]

Does the Tia Trio have aggressive treble?or can it be to intense? I have the U4S and love it , but I’m afraid that the Trio could a be a bit to much for me … I’m a little treble sensitive! Regarding the bass if done right bring it on

Two things stood out for me when I had the Trio - 1. the bass, which is one of the best I've ever heard 2. the holographic soundstage which was the best to that time for me.

I found the treble to be ok'ish. For me it was too little treble coming out of the Trio. But please be aware that I love treble as long as it isn't sibilant. So maybe some real treble sensitive listeners can also chime in and report from their experience.

Overall I found the Trio highly enjoyable, It's a great IEM! (though a little too expensive given the competition today)