[DynamicEars]

IMHO little peaks and dips are necessary and part of the tuning to create dynamics and sharp transients without too much splashy or ringing.
Especially on trebles area, if you take route on boosting 5khz lower trebles then you'll need to cut 6khz to prevent over ringing or splashy and other way around. Same goes with 8khz boost for air, you'll need to cut at 7khz to make sure they won't sounded sibilance.
Too smooth graph usually made from dampened frequencies and most case, too many overdampened IEMs.

The Storm FR is great for me, the perfect bass shelf, that little raise on lower mids like in u12t, the below harman pinna gain that made them more balance, and those perfect peaks and dips as micro detail transients while retaining balance as macro tuning, and last the treble extension. To be honest, the FR is somehow similar to my own target reference with those peaks and dips too that I created and revised over years.

Just my 2 cents
Note : Sadly, I can't afford the Storm even though high chance they will be my endgame.

 

[twiceboss]

If you've ever heard a sine sweep on a good speaker system, the treble sounds highly jagged. If you've ever seen dummy head measurements of a good speaker system, the treble looks highly jagged. The idea that IEMs and headphones need to conform firmly to a smoothed target curve to sound good honestly isn't based in reality.

Bro, just increase the smoothness in the graph. Easy haha... Though, seriously i dont like a dead room for hifi. So yeah, a lot of QRD diffusers for reflection could result on evenness but without making it sounds dark as a smooth graph shows.

 

[hevelaoak]

I mean a flat line isn’t possible and I definitely don’t think any iec711 coupler can measure treble accurately enough to see something without peaks and dips.

I don't mean "flat line" but at least... smoother? well I digress

 

[hevelaoak]

If you've ever seen dummy head measurements of a good speaker system, the treble looks highly jagged

that's a whole different story. I think a smoother response above 4kHz is ideal for in-ear because of the lack of diffusion of the sound wave. no?

 

[DynamicEars]

that's a whole different story. I think a smoother response above 4kHz is ideal for in-ear because of the lack of diffusion of the sound wave. no?

IMHO, no.. see my posting above.
Chasing smooth FR with dampers will result overly smooth or "boring" sound, like some moondrops.
Perhaps the peaks and dips are necessary for transient attacks and prevent splashy, over ringing because of resonance, or sibilances. But still the macro FR must be in line with the target.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

IMHO, no.. see my posting above.
Chasing smooth FR with dampers will result overly smooth or "boring" sound, like some moondrops.
Perhaps the peaks and dips are necessary for transient attacks and prevent splashy, over ringing because of resonance, or sibilances. But still the macro FR must be in line with the target.

Well said. That’s what happening to Moondrop’s Aria OG. They tried to hand cuff Aria’s driver with moondrop’s VDSF too much, and cutting peaks and dips with dampers resulted “odd” transient stock Aria.

 

[podnosimyszafe]

IMHO, no.. see my posting above.
Chasing smooth FR with dampers will result overly smooth or "boring" sound, like some moondrops.
Perhaps the peaks and dips are necessary for transient attacks and prevent splashy, over ringing because of resonance, or sibilances. But still the macro FR must be in line with the target.

Sometimes a little bit of imperfection is more enjoyable for us humans than "too perfect" alternative. A little bit like in music. Even in ( very broadely defined) classical music, where the beautiful and consonant sound was what people were looking for, composers were spicing things up with dissonances.

I am curious if there is a psychoacoustical explanation for (supposed) phenomenon, that occassional peaks add "brilliance and sparkliness" to the sound and are perceived as more exciting than smooth FR line. It seems as if it is already used in some Focal headphones and in Dunu Vulkan, but I can be just totally wrong and this is not the way their tuners were thinking.

 

[podnosimyszafe]

(removed)

 

[Leonarfd]

Wrong post.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Sometimes a little bit of imperfection is more enjoyable for us humans than "too perfect" alternative. A little bit like in music. Even in ( very broadely defined) classical music, where the beautiful and consonant sound was what people were looking for, composers were spicing things up with dissonances.

I am curious if there is a psychoacoustical explanation for (supposed) phenomenon, that occassional peaks add "brilliance and sparkliness" to the sound and are perceived as more exciting than smooth FR line. It seems as if it is already used in some Focal headphones and in Dunu Vulkan, but I can be just totally wrong and this is not the way their tuners were thinking.

That’s what Japanese wabi&sabi spirit is. Or it’s a called “乙“ “otsu”, as to refer “B” grade. 甲乙丙丁 stands for ancient Japanese A/B/C/D. Please actually find B-grade, an imperfect one to be more enjoyable. You cam actually use is as adjective, instead of beautiful, “ that’s very otsu” we call it.

Acceptance of imperfection and transience.

 

[sanakimpro]

Hey Precogvision,

Not sure if this is the right place to ask. LMK if I should PM instead.

Bought the IER-Z1R partly based on your reviews and have been loving it.. looking for a DAP for it now. I’ve narrowed the list down to these top 6 DAP by order of preference and value. Curious to hear your perspective...

1. iBasso DX320: all rounder with balanced ROHM dac sound, fast UI, pretty screen, reasonable price and swappable ports, but not very powerful. Likely to buy this one….
2. Shanling M9: lovely AKM sound with deep bass extension, fast UI, nice volume always on display, but not very powerful
3. Sony WM1ZM2: amazing sub-bass extension and layering, but relatively slow UI, small screen (noticeable low youtube fps) and underpowered for full-sized cans. Cost 2x of DX320!
4. Fiio M17: insane output power, all the ports you need, can second as a desktop dac/amp with clean dry sound sig but super heavy, gets warm quickly
5. Cayin N8ii: nice euphonic tube sound with many experimentation, but slightly underpowered, small lower res screen running on android 9. Cost 2x of DX320!
6. A&K SP3000: Personally haven’t tested this as not available at the time but in consideration since highly rated and using AKM chip. However, dislike closed OS system (tested SP2000T with laggy UI) and it cost 2.5x of DX320!

Genres: 50% KPop (blackpink, aespa, IU), 30% classical (beethoven, vivaldi, tchaikovsky), 10% rock/metal (linkin park, metallica, a7x), 10% electronic (sophie, daft punk, skrillex), 10% indie (lorde, lana del rey).

Look forward to your thoughts, thanks!

 

[firesign]

Hey Precogvision,

Not sure if this is the right place to ask. LMK if I should PM instead.

Bought the IER-Z1R partly based on your reviews and have been loving it.. looking for a DAP for it now. I’ve narrowed the list down to these top 6 DAP by order of preference and value. Curious to hear your perspective...

1. iBasso DX320: all rounder with balanced ROHM dac sound, fast UI, pretty screen, reasonable price and swappable ports, but not very powerful. Likely to buy this one….
2. Shanling M9: lovely AKM sound with deep bass extension, fast UI, nice volume always on display, but not very powerful
3. Sony WM1ZM2: amazing sub-bass extension and layering, but relatively slow UI, small screen (noticeable low youtube fps) and underpowered for full-sized cans. Cost 2x of DX320!
4. Fiio M17: insane output power, all the ports you need, can second as a desktop dac/amp with clean dry sound sig but super heavy, gets warm quickly
5. Cayin N8ii: nice euphonic tube sound with many experimentation, but slightly underpowered, small lower res screen running on android 9. Cost 2x of DX320!
6. A&K SP3000: Personally haven’t tested this as not available at the time but in consideration since highly rated and using AKM chip. However, dislike closed OS system (tested SP2000T with laggy UI) and it cost 2.5x of DX320!

Genres: 50% KPop (blackpink, aespa, IU), 30% classical (beethoven, vivaldi, tchaikovsky), 10% rock/metal (linkin park, metallica, a7x), 10% electronic (sophie, daft punk, skrillex), 10% indie (lorde, lana del rey).

Look forward to your thoughts, thanks!

The iBasso DX320 has 1.2W at 32 ohms. It is really powerful (for a DAP)!

 

[Precogvision]

Hey Precogvision,

Not sure if this is the right place to ask. LMK if I should PM instead.

Bought the IER-Z1R partly based on your reviews and have been loving it.. looking for a DAP for it now. I’ve narrowed the list down to these top 6 DAP by order of preference and value. Curious to hear your perspective...

1. iBasso DX320: all rounder with balanced ROHM dac sound, fast UI, pretty screen, reasonable price and swappable ports, but not very powerful. Likely to buy this one….
2. Shanling M9: lovely AKM sound with deep bass extension, fast UI, nice volume always on display, but not very powerful
3. Sony WM1ZM2: amazing sub-bass extension and layering, but relatively slow UI, small screen (noticeable low youtube fps) and underpowered for full-sized cans. Cost 2x of DX320!
4. Fiio M17: insane output power, all the ports you need, can second as a desktop dac/amp with clean dry sound sig but super heavy, gets warm quickly
5. Cayin N8ii: nice euphonic tube sound with many experimentation, but slightly underpowered, small lower res screen running on android 9. Cost 2x of DX320!
6. A&K SP3000: Personally haven’t tested this as not available at the time but in consideration since highly rated and using AKM chip. However, dislike closed OS system (tested SP2000T with laggy UI) and it cost 2.5x of DX320!

Genres: 50% KPop (blackpink, aespa, IU), 30% classical (beethoven, vivaldi, tchaikovsky), 10% rock/metal (linkin park, metallica, a7x), 10% electronic (sophie, daft punk, skrillex), 10% indie (lorde, lana del rey).

Look forward to your thoughts, thanks!

To be perfectly honest, I don't believe that DAPs are worth the inconvenience of chasing that last 5-10% of sound quality. They've become incredibly bricky and almost all of them, even the snappiest ones, still use subpar SOCs relative to the smartphone market. Manufacturers are always pumping out new ones too (minus possibly Sony), so they depreciate almost instantly.

BUT if you're still keen on chasing that last leg of sound quality, then I agree that the DX320 or one of the Fiio ones is probably the safest bet, although I've only heard the M11.

I feel like the other DAPs might be more pigeon-holed. The Sony DAPs pair well with their IEMs, but they're pretty archaic in terms of software and also really pricy. The A&Ks are just overpriced and have awful software. There are some people who swear by the Cayin stuff, but it's also really pricy and I'm not sure if a tube coloration would be the best pairing with the IER-Z1R. I guess it also depends on what sound characteristics of the IER-Z1R you want to enhance. Not sure about the Shanling, haven't heard any of their DAPs.

 

[sanakimpro]

To be perfectly honest, I don't believe that DAPs are worth the inconvenience of chasing that last 5-10% of sound quality. They've become incredibly bricky and almost all of them, even the snappiest ones, still use subpar SOCs relative to the smartphone market. Manufacturers are always pumping out new ones too (minus possibly Sony), so they depreciate almost instantly.

BUT if you're still keen on chasing that last leg of sound quality, then I agree that the DX320 or one of the Fiio ones is probably the safest bet, although I've only heard the M11.

I feel like the other DAPs might be more pigeon-holed. The Sony DAPs pair well with their IEMs, but they're pretty archaic in terms of software and also really pricy. The A&Ks are just overpriced and have awful software. There are some people who swear by the Cayin stuff, but it's also really pricy and I'm not sure if a tube coloration would be the best pairing with the IER-Z1R. I guess it also depends on what sound characteristics of the IER-Z1R you want to enhance. Not sure about the Shanling, haven't heard any of their DAPs.

I was in the camp of iPhone>L&P W2 dongle for ~2 years but recently started looking for a DAP as I've been moving around a bit and found the bundle a bit inconvenient + USB-C cables keep dying due to wear and tear. Totally aware that DAPs may not have 100% the SQ like TOTL desktop DAC/AMPs like Hugo2, DMP-Z1 etc but still would be nice to know the DAP we use as everyday carry provides ~80%-90% decent sound quality at reasonable price. Hence why my list has DX320 over the SP3000, N8ii etc. I'm aware you test your IEMs with the mighty Apple Dongle

In terms of DAP, yeah I've some confirmation bias to just get the DX320 already, just crowdsourcing different opinions for now... Fiio M17 is likely out for me as I've read a bit about heat issues and I can't have a hot brick in my gym shorts For Cayin N8ii, the DX320+Amp 14 actually gives balanced tube sound at much lower cost with higher power (amp11mk2), better screen, newer OS.. and I love the modularity of DX320 since I have had the 3.5mm ports break on me before so having ability to just change the amp card appeals to me. For A&K and Sony DAPs, agree with your observations.

In terms of sound signature, I'd like the DAP to accentuate and not trying to "compensate/correct" Z1R's character. I appreciate deep-subbass rumble with long decay, deep layering and expansive sound stage. Mid-range and treble timbre is not something I'm fussy with.. So far, I like the sound from Sony 1ZM2 and Shanling M9's AKM chip as well. My concern is the ROHM DAC is sort of a wildcard and to my ears sounded more "balanced", neither too velvety/warm like AKM based DAPs nor clean and analytical like ESS DAPs

Thanks so much for your thoughts! I will likely go with the DX320 but do let me know if you have other suggestions.

 

[o0genesis0o]

I was in the camp of iPhone>L&P W2 dongle for ~2 years but recently started looking for a DAP as I've been moving around a bit and found the bundle a bit inconvenient + USB-C cables keep dying due to wear and tear. Totally aware that DAPs may not have 100% the SQ like TOTL desktop DAC/AMPs like Hugo2, DMP-Z1 etc but still would be nice to know the DAP we use as everyday carry provides ~80%-90% decent sound quality at reasonable price. Hence why my list has DX320 over the SP3000, N8ii etc. I'm aware you test your IEMs with the mighty Apple Dongle

In terms of DAP, yeah I've some confirmation bias to just get the DX320 already, just crowdsourcing different opinions for now... Fiio M17 is likely out for me as I've read a bit about heat issues and I can't have a hot brick in my gym shorts For Cayin N8ii, the DX320+Amp 14 actually gives balanced tube sound at much lower cost with higher power (amp11mk2), better screen, newer OS.. and I love the modularity of DX320 since I have had the 3.5mm ports break on me before so having ability to just change the amp card appeals to me. For A&K and Sony DAPs, agree with your observations.

In terms of sound signature, I'd like the DAP to accentuate and not trying to "compensate/correct" Z1R's character. I appreciate deep-subbass rumble with long decay, deep layering and expansive sound stage. Mid-range and treble timbre is not something I'm fussy with.. So far, I like the sound from Sony 1ZM2 and Shanling M9's AKM chip as well. My concern is the ROHM DAC is sort of a wildcard and to my ears sounded more "balanced", neither too velvety/warm like AKM based DAPs nor clean and analytical like ESS DAPs

Thanks so much for your thoughts! I will likely go with the DX320 but do let me know if you have other suggestions.

I was going to suggest Shanling M6U but then I realised you are after even higher end stuffs

I pay unreasonable amount of attention to soundstage imaging and detail / resolution, so any little bit matters. I find desktop gear provide more of these than most (but not all) dongles. Big portable amps and decent DAPs like M6U can catch up with my desktop gear, so I am satisfied. (Some) Shanling DAP also has that warm, smooth tuning that is nice and quite hard to copy with EQ.