[Riccioli30]

Well, it's hard to do such a comparison when cartridges are very expensive, you only have one simple turntable, and a preamp that only does the basic thing. I just watched a new video on the tracking angle where Michael Fremer shows the new Jico Seto Hori. I had this on my list when it was €900. The new remodel has an 'integrated' headshell and a beautiful box. It now costs $4000.

It looks like a cobra coming out of a fakirs basket... Very nice. But is it worth the 4x price increase? Let Michael Fremer do the review, he gets the sample for free. I'm not saying he gets to keep it. Sometimes, mostly not. But he gets to test everything he likes.

So why doesn't anybody review an affordable Chinese cartridge? Maybe because if they do, they won't get these free samples offered anymore? Because the new kid on the block doesn't ask these boutique prices? It might surprise some people but Chinese cartridges have been on the market for a while, disguised under new developments bij western brands (Sky Analog, Charisma Audio, Jasmine). And while writing I just found this one: Le Son LS10. With a review on TNT-audio:
https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/leson_ls10_e.html

I saw this new ceramic cantilever already as a cheaper alternative to ruby and saphire, and diamond (all artificial). One was the Charisma Audio Eco. Another was the Excsoni EC-1, a brand that looks like the identical twin of Sky Analog G-1-3 (only it seems they shyed away from the ceramic). I already saw the Excsoni on a Chinese webshop, still $659 + 21% payable to our local regime. The Sky Analog are €1100-2100 (incl 21% VAT) The Le Son looks nicer and is $1260.




So when I saw the new cartridges on AliExpress with a ceramic cantilever for €305+VAT, what is stopping me? And moreover: it has silver coils instead of copper. So I just bought it so I could test it for myself. I made a new picture trying to get the same angle and soft lighting (using the Cardigans as reflectionscreen). Quite a difficult angle for me with a phone. Look at the similarities. Same form language, same materials, same detail. Look at the tiny brass pin in the front! Conclusion: same manufacturer.

Edit: uploaded a better picture.

All very shareable. And I agree with the reason why - perhaps - Chinese cartridges are not reviewed. The photo does the details justice. Impressive item for the price. It makes you think of the intermediation profit only if proposed with another brand name

 

[Riccioli30]

I don't think I've seen a good explanation of why ruby & sapphire are even considered premium cantilever materials. They're heavier than boron, and less strong. Perhaps they're more rigid than boron (good), but also more prone to snap? I've also heard examples (Ortofon Kontrapunkt and Cadenza series) where I prefer a good aluminum cantilever to boron, so it's hard to rank these at all. And I have had good experiences with diamond (Koetsu Blue Lace).

Good question. I once thought it was a resonance problem. Not the first resonance but the trail "echo" of the first which must be tuned in some way. guided harmoniously. And this depends not only on the hardness of the material but also on its intimate atomic or crystalline composition. And how the cantilever fits into the rest of the body. This is what I thought many years ago and perhaps I still think now. It's a tuning by ear. Perhaps. Or maybe not

 

[]eep]

I don't think I've seen a good explanation of why ruby & sapphire are even considered premium cantilever materials. They're heavier than boron, and less strong. Perhaps they're more rigid than boron (good), but also more prone to snap? I've also heard examples (Ortofon Kontrapunkt and Cadenza series) where I prefer a good aluminum cantilever to boron, so it's hard to rank these at all. And I have had good experiences with diamond (Koetsu Blue Lace).

Good fundamental question. But sapphire is just as stiff as boron. Ruby a little less. Boron is also rather prone to breaking when your 180 lbs cleaning lady snags it with a dust rag. I've seen plenty of snapped boron cantilevers. Jokes aside, it's pretty brittle. A little less than berillium (which is poisoness which makes it even more difficult to work with).

Besides youngs modulus and specific weight there is one more variable that needs considering and that is damping. Why are bells made of metal? Because they ring. That makes a difference in sound. It dampens ringing (harmonics). And that's probably why sapphire and diamond are preferred. Diamond is pure carbon and the hardest material. Sapphire which is aluminium oxide comes second. And that makes a difference too; how hard it is to shape.
Minerals usually damped more than metals. And organic materials even more. That's why some, Miyajima, uses cacti thorns.

Edit: I forgot carbon. I have 2 of them for my lowly AT91 and they perform very well. One standard AT carbon and an LP-gear carbon VL.

So the real question is: how does it sound and can you make it? It's not just raw specs but also application.

 

[mulveling]

Good fundamental question. But sapphire is just as stiff as boron. Ruby a little less. Boron is also rather prone to breaking when your 180 lbs cleaning lady snags it with a dust rag. I've seen plenty of snapped boron cantilevers. Jokes aside, it's pretty brittle. A little less than berillium (which is poisoness which makes it even more difficult to work with).

Besides youngs modulus and specific weight there is one more variable that needs considering and that is damping. Why are bells made of metal? Because they ring. That makes a difference in sound. It dampens ringing (harmonics). And that's probably why sapphire and diamond are preferred. Diamond is pure carbon and the hardest material. Sapphire which is aluminium oxide comes second. And that makes a difference too; how hard it is to shape.
Minerals usually damped more than metals. And organic materials even more. That's why some, Miyajima, uses cacti thorns.

So the real question is: how does it sound and can you make it? It's not just raw specs but also application.

Interesting! Thanks for the info. The two boron cartridges I've seen break - both lost their stylus clean off (glue failure) while the boron itself looked pristine and unaffected. Yes, one was a fuzzy sweater snag - the other got slammed hard down & across a record. This gave me the impression that boron is actually quite strong! I haven't seen one snap yet. I know 2 is not a very good sample size lol.

The weakest cantilevers have to be those super thin-wall aluminum pipes on very cheap MM cartridges - they crumple very easily. It's really a race to the bottom with the extremely flimsy rubber suspensions on those same cheap MM's (e.g. Ortofon 2M series) - either one of these flimsy parts can very easily do the stylus in. MC cartridges can't take an easy stylus replacement, but they're thankfully much more robust in my experience. And the only good solution to the "cleaning lady" problem is to lock away your cartridges when they visit! I clean my own audio rooms - always will.

I agree application and integration is more more important than raw specs here.

 

[]eep]

All very shareable. And I agree with the reason why - perhaps - Chinese cartridges are not reviewed. The photo does the details justice. Impressive item for the price. It makes you think of the intermediation profit only if proposed with another brand name

Flippers are a nuisance in the vinyl community. And think of concert tickets. And it's the same with dealers of hardware. I remember a certain Mr Mark Levinson who shamelessly rebranded Chinese products under his own name and sold them at 10x the price. Our mentor in my previous endeavor told us: if you sell something you made, to be viable as a serious business, you need to sell it at 2.1x the price.

That's why I share it here so you can profit and bypass the flippers and merchants.

 

[]eep]

I don't think I've seen a good explanation of why ruby & sapphire are even considered premium cantilever materials. They're heavier than boron, and less strong. Perhaps they're more rigid than boron (good), but also more prone to snap? I've also heard examples (Ortofon Kontrapunkt and Cadenza series) where I prefer a good aluminum cantilever to boron, so it's hard to rank these at all. And I have had good experiences with diamond (Koetsu Blue Lace).

I found what makes the ceramic better than boron. It's boron nitride. Mass 2.2, YM ~700. Boron is mass 2.4 and YM ~400. So that's purely the strength part of it. None of these numbers are absolutes, there's a range depending on bla bla.

I also found wood cantilevers on the Jico site. Machined from pink marble wood.

There's quite some similarities between a cantilever and speaker cone materials. And bike frames. Some carbon, some kevlar, some aluminium, some titanium, some diamond, some ceramic. And a revolution in materials technology. I noticed the same tone on the AS carbon tonearm as when dropping my bike with carbon frame.

Edit... Nitride io carbide. Easy to mistake. There's a difference. Boron nitride has 2 forms just like carbon has diamond and graphite. Cubic is like diamond and only exceeded by Diamond. Hexagonal is like graphite, lubricant.

 

[mooster1223]

I have a hankering to spend some money... I currently have a Techniques SL1210GR with a couple of carts. I'm currently waiting on a B-786 MC cart to arrive from aliexpress. I'm using the preamp in my Denon PMA-A110 for MM and MC duties.

I've been eyeing a SME 30/2 with a SME V tonearm. If I were to "jump" would I be TOTALLY blown away? I'm not crazy about needing a lift off dust cover and I really like how easy it is to switch carts with the QD cart design of the Techniques.

Any insight would be appreciated.

 

[]eep]

Don't ask me because I'm biased against The sl1200 and the likes. I think it sounds lifeless and 'one note'. The music doesn't flow. Great to have a quickstart TT for DJ's. All features are really suitable for that use. But for real Hifi I think it's one of the most overrated TT's just because it's used bij so many DJ's. I think there's a sound comparison on the Tracking Angle or Analog Planet that shows a clear difference.

SME is a great brand and the V is a legendary tonearm. Some say it's a bit overdamped. I like having a removable headshell now, but it can't get the best out of a cartridge. For that you need a totally stiff connection where most vibrations occur.

 

[mooster1223]

@]eep thanks for the reply. Any experience with the Thornes TD 124 DD. There's very little out there on it, other than the wow and flutter being terrible. I have a hard time believing a table at that cost would be that bad... Also has a QD cart attachment which I understand isn't ideal but by gosh, it's handy!

 

[]eep]

I haven't looked into the new td124 dd but I can't imagine there would be problems with it. Thorens is not the same as the original Swiss company but they are dead serious about building on the name (totally different from their former competitor Lenco). And they have the expertise to make incredible high tech gear. You got me interested so I'll keep track of that.

I have a different dilemma. I saw on the local (ebay) marketplace a Miyajima Takumi. It's his entry stereo cart with a lowly bonded elliptical (EB) stylus to keep costs down. I love the sound of my Zero mono. But such a basic cheap stylus. Real users on forums are not as forgiving on the stereo versions as 'professional' reviewers. I would really love to have a stereo version but an EB really makes me doubt. The ad I saw was €950, now reduced to €850. Yet it's basically an AT95 with better tuning. I like the reverse suspension idea. But EB...

This when I am saving up for one of these Chinese top models with sapphire+shibata and silver wire. They start at €890 (minus 21% vat plus w/e customs charge on the fictitious price).

I recently heard the expression 'analysis paralysis'. That is a fitting expression.

 

[]eep]

I have a hankering to spend some money... I currently have a Techniques SL1210GR with a couple of carts. I'm currently waiting on a B-786 MC cart to arrive from aliexpress. I'm using the preamp in my Denon PMA-A110 for MM and MC duties.

I've been eyeing a SME 30/2 with a SME V tonearm. If I were to "jump" would I be TOTALLY blown away? I'm not crazy about needing a lift off dust cover and I really like how easy it is to switch carts with the QD cart design of the Techniques.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Just found this comparison. I always like these for indication. I know it's not my TT but not out of place here. Isn't this the TT you mentioned?

 

[joeling]

This is my main table

 

[mooster1223]

Just found this comparison. I always like these for indication. I know it's not my TT but not out of place here. Isn't this the TT you mentioned?

That looks to be an SME but a different model than the 30/2. Definitely not out of place.

 

[]eep]

This is my main table

He said...
Uh huh.
Did you hire a satellite to take that picture?

(Impressive, it surely warrants a few closer ups from a somewhat more photogenic position)

 

[Podster]

This is my main table

Very nice and obviously inspired by General Grievous