[Vertigo-1]

I use to be into mainstream pop music quite a bit a while back, i.e. I have Spear's two CDs. Nowdays I find my tastes have shifted over to the instrumental side, and I start looking for instrumental combinations with other genres (like Bond - Born...classical + Carribean/techno or Keiko Matsui's unique style of Jazz), or just simply more unique forms of orchestra like stuff that John Tesh does...I haven't touched those Britney CDs for a good 6+ months now. A good sign that my music tastes are maturing...and I just find it cool that I'm trying to discover new styles of music that I would have never considered in the past. I also use to listen to rap quite a bit...last time I heard rap was on a radio out in the streets, but not at home for quite a while now.

 

[KR...]

Quote:

just simply more unique forms of orchestra like stuff that John Tesh does

1st Kenny G now John Tesh???

 

[Braver]

maybe this already went offtopic, dunno, can't remember what I just read...

anyway, my take on pop:

RATM isn't pop, they're one of the best rapcore bands and IMO the only one who truly mastered the style.

pop means to me: music fat guys in suits make money with. half the bands I listen to set up their own little company to break free of any artistic boundaries laid upon them by hte big companies. Britney/Christina/N-Sinc etc etc all come straight form "How-To-Make-money, chapter two: music". a bunch of guys think up 12 pieces of lyrics, pick a drumloop, hire a bunch of good looking teenagers and call it an album. for instance, Live isn't pop, they're just popular.

now if you like that stuff, thats your problem

but for me, pop usually lacks

-emotion ("baby hit me one more time"? nah...)
-passion (they don't usually write their own lyrics, so that makes it unconvincing. and if they do, it's usually no good)
-musical talent (not that I'm into complex arrangements, but using that same drumloop in hunderds of songs get boring. and there's no passion in the other computer generated instruments either)
some can sing pretty, but still..

and I'll admit it's kind of fun to listen to music noone else knows.

MTV with the sound off is good television tho

 

[mcbiff]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl "I'm wondering what do other people on head-fi listen to that is considered "mainstream." " Allow me to provide the point-of-view of an aging "indie-rocker". (Not so sure how to qualify myself, really. I love music, period, so I'm completely "freelance", and don't confine myself to specific styles or genres of music. However, I'm also secretly a fan of pop music. I never saw the point of taking the time, energy, and commitment necessary to create good music with the intent to fail utterly or remain anonymous.) I think that when we look back at the period of 1997-2001, we will view it as one of the absolute nadirs (that is, low points) of popular music. This period has been a complete DROUGHT in terms of music vs. hype, marketing, and media manipulation. I practically despair when I look at the state of current "pop music". Virtually nothing of substance has broken through and I wonder if kids today could even recognize something "real" if it did, by accident. The only hope we have is if this current fascist regime of unholy and crappy music will inspire a backlash the likes of which makes punk rock look tame and reserved. Rock and Roll is truly on its death-bed, and this current crop of "rock" musicians are hastening it's demise. Can anyone dispute me? The current period is so bad as to be appalling. Shameful. Disgraceful. Unforgiveable. Of no value whatsoever. markl

Unfortunately, that is the most accurate description of the current state of music I've read in quite a while. I think it's depressing and boring at the same time that the times have changed so much over the last ten years. It feels like today we could never get another GnR or Nirvana or Zeppelin etc, that is to say bands that actually mean something and make people think. Instead we get droves of boyband/girlband crap that is music only by definition. "Bands" that consist of people that can't sing or play instruments, but instead rely on good looks and stupid dance steps to make teens buy their music. It's like something has died.

What can be done? Unfortunately I don't think anything other than relying on people realizing what they're missing. Every now and then music renews itself, let's just hope that the renewal is not too far away.

This really sucks, I want new music to listen to, but instead I find myself discovering stuff from the 70s/80s that is just infinitely better than anything made today.

 

[Braver]

oh, there's a lot of good 90's music. it takes some luck and patience to find it tho.

 

[zoboomofo]

Hey coolvij. Don't worry about your cd collection. Its actually kind of interesting to look back at your purchases to see how your tastes evolve.

I've always been a pop fan, but never knew why until I started listening to Zeppelin (there are so many of us fans out there). Yes, these guys were rock but they were pop too - they had mass appeal!. The sheer brilliance of this band allowed me to ask what it was that made me worship these musicians. Then after that, every cd purchase I've made has been a coherent string of deliberate and successful acquisitions. Its made my musical adventure so much fun.

 

[markl]

I won't deny that there has been good music in the late 90's. My point is, you don't get to hear it on the radio or see it on MTV. It's not "pop" music if people aren't aware of it. There's just no outlet for the music that music-lovers love. The music industry has been hi-jacked. My prediction is this:

We will ultimately remember the names and exploits of the svegalis and executives behind the current pop regime (whose names we probably don't even know now) more than we will remeber the music of their puppets. The achievement is in "Hollywood-izing" the music industry and making the music utterly incidental to the success of their "artists". The "music industry" generates more money from the non-musical aspects of pop stardom than it does from the songs.

markl

 

[Braver]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl I won't deny that there has been good music in the late 90's. My point is, you don't get to hear it on the radio or see it on MTV. It's not "pop" music if people aren't aware of it. There's just no outlet for the music that music-lovers love. The music industry has been hi-jacked. My prediction is this: We will ultimately remember the names and exploits of the svegalis and executives behind the current pop regime (whose names we probably don't even know now) more than we will remeber the music of their puppets. The achievement is in "Hollywood-izing" the music industry and making the music utterly incidental to the success of their "artists". The "music industry" generates more money from the non-musical aspects of pop stardom than it does from the songs. markl

true.

but does it all really matter? I mean, there must be some people like about that stuff or they wouldn't buy it, right? and those who don't like it, don't buy it and venture into other genres like jazz, prog, classical, country (

)

there must be something with pop that makes people buy it.....beyond me tho. must have something to do with fitting in or something. I don't know anyone who's into pop tho.

 

[KR...]

Quote:

must have something to do with fitting in or something.

You hit the nail right on the head, most of these fans are very young, as in grade school (1st to 6th grade).

 

[markl]

Being offered a choice between Pepsi and Coke, is not a true choice. What about coffee? Or whiskey? Or water? Kids can't develop a taste for something if they have no exposure to it. Good, real music made by bona-fide artists has been virtually absent from the pop charts for several years, IMHO.

markl

 

[Braver]

Quote:

Originally posted by markl Kids can't develop a taste for something if they have no exposure to it.

so, television is a kids only form of exposure

? much has changed since I was a kid...

 

[coolvij]

First off - I love how much this thread has progressed....

Secondly - I still don't think we've arrived at a strict definition of pop music...

Also, I offer a 13 (almost 14!) year-olds perspective...

Lately, I've seen lots of kids at school buy their CD player and get their Sony StreetStyles.......to listen to music they TALK about.

The music don't have to be good no more, to put it frankly.

I mean, some guys talk about Britney('s ass....), others, about Korn's(stupidity....sorry Korn fans), and others, about whatever new MTV prop-up band is out there.

There has DEFINETELY been good music created in the 90s (RATM, some U2 stuff, Tool! - Schism WAS on MTV for a WHILE.....)....tho MUCH less than previous time periods....

I mean, I'm into jazz, especially Coltrane....and ever YEAR it seems he had SEVERAL great albums.....amazing, really.

The standards have gone down.....

 

[davidcotton]

Quote:

Originally posted by coolvij I'm wondering what do other people on head-fi listen to that is considered "mainstream."

I can honestly say that 99.95% (maybe higher!!) that all the stuff that I listen to can not be considered "mainstream"

There is no way in hell that most of the bands that I listen to will ever be played on national daytime (or evening for that matter!)radio, simply because its too long. Most songs are at LEAST over the 5-6 minute mark and some pushing the 20 minutes, do I care about this? no because I went out and found out about the stuff I like, was lucky enough to find a good distributor for it and kept using them. I have been using the same mail order company for about 5 years now simply because I am fed up with the blank look on some person behind the counter simply because I havnt asked if they have Britneys (as the popular example, in no way taken as a dig at anyone ok?) new one.

I am also openminded enough to give anything a listen to at least once. I may be fairly certain that I'll hate it (rap for example) but until I hear a song by a specific artist I never say "thats crap", simply because I've had it done to me too often.

Rant over sorry about the length!!

 

[KR...]

What are you listening to davidcotton?

The longest song that I own that isn't classical/opera is a mere 52:08

 

[Cousin Eddie]

52:08 is the length of a single song?! I'd imagine that'd be a real pain at the recording studio. It would be really frustating to get to the 45 minute mark in the piece, and then someone coughs or something, and so everyone has to start over. "Hey, Larry, you dumbass! You missed a note! We only had two minutes left on this thing! Concentrate next time! I want to get out of here sometime tonight! Do we have anyone else here besides Larry that can play the violin?!"

I think that even 20 minutes is too long for a song. I think there should be like a 6 minute limit to the length of songs. Hey, RIAA, if you're out there reading this, there's a cause for you! Forget that Napster stuff, let's get some legislation going on this!

I'm not saying there aren't special cases where songs might need to be 20 minutes long. But, let's be honest here, a lot of what's in those long songs isn't exactly the "A" material. I've listened to some "classical" piano songs where it's like the piano guy falls asleep and there's 10 or 15 seconds where there are no piano notes being played. Usually after the pause, there's a quick succession of piano notes, as if the piano player just woke up from dosing off, and feels the audience needs to be reminded that he's still there. "You guys thought it was over, didn't you! Gotcha! There's still 15 minutes left! Don't go away now! It gets really exciting at the end!"