[Kokomo O]

Jumping into this (not Pono related) conversation, have a Linn LP-12 turntable, good phono preamp, also Peachtree preamp/dac and a Mojo separate tube dac, both do a really nice job as DA converters. Know what? On good vinyl (there is crummy vinyl out there-I'd never claim a scratched copy of a bad reissue of a badly recorded album whips digital, but...) the Linn KILLS the CD playback on similarly, good sourced recordings, and I've surprised some non audiophiles who came with the preconception that the CD HAD to sound better when they heard the difference. Still listen more to digital (just so much easier) than to my turntable (I was never able to get into all the cleaning and care rituals, so much easier to pop a cd in or stream, or even connect the Pono-I knew I could manage to work it in somewhere to make the post relevant), but, when I'm in the mood to sit and take the time, it still sounds better.
And, as with many of these conversations (hi rez vs Red Book, etc), no one ever convinces anyone, unless they actually get a chance to hear WELL EXECUTED LP PLAYBACK for themselves.

'Scuse me, but what could be more Pono-related than this discussion? I generally try to stay out of these often pointless hi-rez vs. redbook and analogue vs. digital discussions, only to find myself drawn in eventually, because they are so often didactic, and characterized by folks arguing past each other. That said, the whole rationale behind the development of Pono was to restore the analogue character to music playback Neil Young, Ry Cooder and many others, myself included, believed it had lost when it made the transition to redbook.
 
Other than that, I agree with everything else you wrote, although my equipment is all different. Would love to hear both of your DACs.

 

[Turrican2]

Spent some time today with the Pono, DX100 and the AKG K3003's. 
 

 
The Pono sounds good, I was very surprised how good, the detail retrieval is excellent and up there with my other gear.  I felt at home as soon as it started playing. It had a familiar yet different quality which I couldnt put my finger on at first.. The sound stage.  Probably better than any other player I own, although subtle, it makes a nice change to what I'm used to and really shines with the more accoustic focused tracks I tried.
 
I compared it to the DX100 and the sound sig is really, really close.  The DX100 has (a little) more weight and authority that really drives the K3003s, they are really a special pairing.  Saying that, I am loving the Pono, even though it lacks some of the weight, the sense of space I get from it is getting really addictive.  I've been a huge lover of the DX100 since I got it 4 years ago and I really expected the Pono to fall at it's feet, but this has got me wondering which one I want to keep.  One will end up in the classifieds, not sure which yet.
 
I will try my HE500 balanced when the cable arrives, really looking forward to that.

 

[doctorjazz]

Hey, come by one day, fairly busy work wise, but should be time at some point!
Right now, using the Peachtree Grandpre as preamp and DAC...the Mojo is actually better sounding than the Peachtree internal DAC (which is nice sounding, and got great reviews, one in The Absolute Sound if I remember correctly), but it is finicky, and I don't think it plays well with my Peachtree, so right now it is sitting in the rack. May connect it up soon (actually did house renovations, haven't gotten most of the rack up and running yet, mostly using headphones). Curious what you're listening to...

Jumping into this (not Pono related) conversation, have a Linn LP-12 turntable, good phono preamp, also Peachtree preamp/dac and a Mojo separate tube dac, both do a really nice job as DA converters. Know what? On good vinyl (there is crummy vinyl out there-I'd never claim a scratched copy of a bad reissue of a badly recorded album whips digital, but...) the Linn KILLS the CD playback on similarly, good sourced recordings, and I've surprised some non audiophiles who came with the preconception that the CD HAD to sound better when they heard the difference. Still listen more to digital (just so much easier) than to my turntable (I was never able to get into all the cleaning and care rituals, so much easier to pop a cd in or stream, or even connect the Pono-I knew I could manage to work it in somewhere to make the post relevant), but, when I'm in the mood to sit and take the time, it still sounds better.

And, as with many of these conversations (hi rez vs Red Book, etc), no one ever convinces anyone, unless they actually get a chance to hear WELL EXECUTED LP PLAYBACK for themselves.

'Scuse me, but what could be more Pono-related than this discussion? I generally try to stay out of these often pointless hi-rez vs. redbook and analogue vs. digital discussions, only to find myself drawn in eventually, because they are so often didactic, and characterized by folks arguing past each other. That said, the whole rationale behind the development of Pono was to restore the analogue character to music playback Neil Young, Ry Cooder and many others, myself included, believed it had lost when it made the transition to redbook.

Other than that, I agree with everything else you wrote, although my equipment is all different. Would love to hear both of your DACs.

 

[FFBookman]

  Wow seriously you find a dirty vinyl with all pops and clicks better than a CD player, let alone 320kbps mp3 on any device? Maybe your dirty is my clean, but even my clean ones are just up to CD quality directly after cleaning. A dirty one just sounds horrible.

#6 - #9 are all really close.
 
it's impossible to get that accurate on such a list because I don't own the same thing in every format, and of course there's mastering, volume, room, time of day, mood, etc.
 
I just think that what mp3 chooses to do as it shrinks files by 80% is too good to be true. It fooled me for years, I just accepted it as eventually getting better or going away, and it did go to 320k but it just won't seem to go away. I think it's helped kill music.
 
The combination of MP3 playback on the consumer side, and DAW's with the CPU power to do both massive parallel plug-in processing and ridiculous automation is what killed our beloved music. It's a big reason why there's no great bands out and everyone thinks it's ok to steal music, or pay $90/year for rental of every piece of music in the world. Ridiculous and unsustainable.
 
I'm projecting myself, since I did lots of production on laptops and lived on plugins from 2005-10 or so until i got better with mics and room treatment. but i had a budget of $0 and don't get held up as a top mixer or have the record sales to back that up.
 
There's some indie stuff from 2000-2015 (hip-hop and rap) that isn't recorded horribly, but most of everything popular is recorded like trash these days. It's due in a large part to diminishing returns from phones and lossy formats.

 

[FFBookman]

 
Spent some time today with the Pono, DX100 and the AKG K3003's. 
 

 
The Pono sounds good, I was very surprised how good, the detail retrieval is excellent and up there with my other gear.  I felt at home as soon as it started playing. It had a familiar yet different quality which I couldnt put my finger on at first.. The sound stage.  Probably better than any other player I own, although subtle, it makes a nice change to what I'm used to and really shines with the more accoustic focused tracks I tried.
 
I compared it to the DX100 and the sound sig is really, really close.  The DX100 has (a little) more weight and authority that really drives the K3003s, they are really a special pairing.  Saying that, I am loving the Pono, even though it lacks some of the weight, the sense of space I get from it is getting really addictive.  I've been a huge lover of the DX100 since I got it 4 years ago and I really expected the Pono to fall at it's feet, but this has got me wondering which one I want to keep.  One will end up in the classifieds, not sure which yet.
 
I will try my HE500 balanced when the cable arrives, really looking forward to that.

Awesome write up. Very eloquent and so true.
 
I get attacked by online arses for being some type of heretic or tinfoil hat guy because i post what production people have known for 20+ years - that a good DAC playing a good file through a good, clean, simple analog stage makes digital sound amazing.
 
Studios know it, but by the time it's on someone's samsung phone playing through $5 of equipment and $5 worth of speakers,  being interrupted by literally the entire world, this crinkly little thing with no real cymbals or instrument sounds on it passes as consumer music.  
 
It really is amazing the difference of opinions between consumers and producers in audio/music. Musicians and producers have been questioning for decades why we have to reduce reduce reduce to put it on the market. And still, on something like head-fi, here are consumers saying becuause that's all we need is the 10%.
 
 
All I'm saying is I agree with you when Im playing 24bit files on my ponoplayer.  When it's 16bit, I'm like, wow, this sounds really good, better than any CD player, but still kinda that digital flat sound.  
 
When an MP3 comes up on the playlist I skip it over half the time because it's a) 2x louder at least, b) sounds like all the real instruments have been replaced by tin foil from my hat, and c) sounds like they are performing inside a shoe box. 

 

[castleofargh]

Jumping into this (not Pono related) conversation, have a Linn LP-12 turntable, good phono preamp, also Peachtree preamp/dac and a Mojo separate tube dac, both do a really nice job as DA converters. Know what? On good vinyl (there is crummy vinyl out there-I'd never claim a scratched copy of a bad reissue of a badly recorded album whips digital, but...) the Linn KILLS the CD playback on similarly, good sourced recordings, and I've surprised some non audiophiles who came with the preconception that the CD HAD to sound better when they heard the difference. Still listen more to digital (just so much easier) than to my turntable (I was never able to get into all the cleaning and care rituals, so much easier to pop a cd in or stream, or even connect the Pono-I knew I could manage to work it in somewhere to make the post relevant), but, when I'm in the mood to sit and take the time, it still sounds better.
And, as with many of these conversations (hi rez vs Red Book, etc), no one ever convinces anyone, unless they actually get a chance to hear WELL EXECUTED LP PLAYBACK for themselves.

there is nobody to convince. some talk about what they prefer, others talk about what is actually closer to the original signal. it's not even an opinion argument, it's a vocabulary problem.
better<= is the subject not the media used for the track.

 

[Kerouac]

Somebody posted this review earlier in the Z7 thread: http://www.cnet.com/products/sony-mdr-z7/
 
The reason I post it over here is this part:
We also tried the headphone with the $400 PonoPlayer, which has a balanced audio option (it has two outputs to plug into), and came away wondering why Pono didn't market the player to be used in this mode with a headphone like the MDR-Z7. The player sounds significantly better when used in balanced audio mode -- it plays louder, the bass is stronger and overall definition is improved.
 
And I can confirm that Z7 (which can also be found over here in the classifieds regularly) out of Pono in balanced mode just sounds superb!

Btw, the balanced cable ''Pono style'' is normally already included with the Z7 (and the same goes for the XBA-Z5)...

 

[Kerouac]

In the Z7 review I've posted above was also a link to this PonoPlayer review:
http://www.cnet.com/products/ponoplayer/

Imo that Pono review is one big joke. He complains that it only has 64gb on board and states that adding another 64gb is the max? Well, my DX90 has 8gb on board and my X5 nothing at all! Besides that Pono accepts a 128gb microsd card without a problem (I can use 192gb right now), so he didn't even do his homework properly.
 
For sound quality I prefer it over both my DX90 and X5 and in balanced mode that gap only becomes bigger. Still he suggests it should be sold for $300

 
The only point of criticism that I have to agree on is the not so good battery life (4-6 hrs)...but that's still on par with that of my DX90 (although DX90 seems to charge faster)

 

[khollister]

Well, I'm going down to a local Pono retailer today to pick one up to use on our summer travel. Also ordered some Oppo PM-3's to use with it along with my HD650's (may spring for the Moon balanced cable for the Sennheisers). It will be interesting to see how it compares to my full size rig. 

 

[subguy812]

  Well, I'm going down to a local Pono retailer today to pick one up to use on our summer travel. Also ordered some Oppo PM-3's to use with it along with my HD650's (may spring for the Moon balanced cable for the Sennheisers). It will be interesting to see how it compares to my full size rig. 

The Oppo PM-3 will require some volume from the PONO to give you any bass extension. I was not big on the synergy between the 2. I sold them to a fellow headfi'er when the black weren't available. However that said I have been very happy with every other hp I have with the PONO

 

[khollister]

 
The Oppo PM-3 will require some volume from the PONO to give you any bass extension.

Not sure I follow what you're saying. The PM-3's are apparently very efficient (confirmed by the InnnerFidelity measurements) with a pretty flat impedence of about 26 ohms so I doubt the Pono will have difficulty driving them. I realize Tyll recommended 30 ohms or higher, but I wasn't expecting a huge problem.
 
The discussion over in the PM-3 thread seemed to dismiss the output impedance concern as having relevance for a planar and several reported using the PM-3 with the Pono without a lack of bass.
 
Have I screwed up big time?

 

[olddude]

There was an interesting link over on the Pono Community site of a web interview with NY.  The best I heard there was his comment that, with MP3 compression you hear 5% of the music and with 24/192 you hear 100% of the music.  His question was, which would you prefer?  He also spoke of the new firmware, which will have "the Revealer, a built-in app which will take a hi-res file in the Pono and play it back at a variety of lower resolutions so that a listener can hear the difference(s) between them.  Before anyone comes on here and bashes, listen to what he says.  The Revealer is at about 10 minutes in.  The whole thing is interesting, especially when he discusses who can hear better sound and who can't.  "Good on you."  

  Enjoy.  
 
http://twit.tv/show/triangulation/199
 
BTW, I'm enjoying all of the posts of people who try the Pono thinking ehh, and then go wow when they actually hear it.  That was my response as well at Xmas and I certainly got beaten up a bunch for saying, WOW here in Head-Fi threads.  Looks like a lot of us are now in the wow camp.  And yes, if you try it in balanced mode, it's double wow.  No kidding.

 

[subguy812]

 
Not sure I follow what you're saying. The PM-3's are apparently very efficient (confirmed by the InnnerFidelity measurements) with a pretty flat impedence of about 26 ohms so I doubt the Pono will have difficulty driving them. I realize Tyll recommended 30 ohms or higher, but I wasn't expecting a huge problem.
 
The discussion over in the PM-3 thread seemed to dismiss the output impedance concern as having relevance for a planar and several reported using the PM-3 with the Pono without a lack of bass.
 
Have I screwed up big time?

No they are very nice hp's. They bass seems to come alive with a little amp'ing. Please don't take it as a screw up, I was letting you know a little of what to expect from first hand experience. I am more of a portable user than a home user and they just didn't produce what I was looking for.  The PM-3 thread is intensely loyal. I was at the torches and pitchfork stage over there for my opinion.

 

[meat01]

  There was an interesting link over on the Pono Community site of a web interview with NY.  The best I heard there was his comment that, with MP3 compression you hear 5% of the music and with 24/192 you hear 100% of the music.  

 
It is comments like this, that cause people to bash the PONO.  The difference between a properly encoded MP3 and 24/192 is simply not this great.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

It's huge with good equipment. But that's for another thread.