[BRCMRGN]

Does anyone who has a PONO use them with JH Audio Roxanne Universal IEM's? Just wondering what the synergy is with them. I have actually heard the Pono has trouble driving some IEM's...

I have both, but haven't tried them together yet. Over the weekend, I can probably try both single-ended and balanced.

 

[Kokomo O]

H2OFidelity, you might want to try the Comply foam tips for your ER-4Ss. I've been using them for a couple of years and find them to be far more comfortable than any of the three options that Etymotic offers. I can use my ER-4Ps for a whole lot longer with them.

 

[olddude]

I found the Complys took away the nice detail at the top end (on my Fidues).  I went back to silicon with them.  Now I use the Sensaphone silicons sleeves on my Shure 846s and wowie.  
 
H20- if you decide it's worth your while, try balanced.  It takes the Pono to a much higher lever.  

 

[H20Fidelity]

  H2OFidelity, you might want to try the Comply foam tips for your ER-4Ss. I've been using them for a couple of years and find them to be far more comfortable than any of the three options that Etymotic offers. I can use my ER-4Ps for a whole lot longer with them.

 
I think I have tried them in the past and did have good results.
 

  I found the Complys took away the nice detail at the top end (on my Fidues).  I went back to silicon with them.  Now I use the Sensaphone silicons sleeves on my Shure 846s and wowie.  
 
H20- if you decide it's worth your while, try balanced.  It takes the Pono to a much higher lever.  

 
 
Etymotic ER4S are quite different from other universal IEMs, they require a deep insertion right up to the second bend of your ear canal. Usually I would agree that comply foams, in short, are useless, at least for me. ER4S is completely different concept of insertion and fitting. (and the only IEM I use foam with)
 
 

 
 
This graph will explain roughly.
 

 
 
 
 
The red circle is where a standard (ie your Shure) stock silicon tips would sit / seal.
 
The blue line is how far the ER4s nozzle inserts into your ear.  (much closer to the ear drum)
 
This is why Kokomo was mentioning an increase in comfort levels using comply foam.

 

[castleofargh]

 trying all kind of tips and using the one that works best is what people should always do. and not listen too much to what others say about it. for once I'm ok with the more than subjective opinions, because the shape of an ear can be quite a mess and need specific stuff.
 
also there is foam and foam, comply alone offers different kinds with slight differences in sound. the ones for sport fail at sealing(on purpose for the ear to "breath") so in a sense we could say it makes the sound brighter ^_^. and of course there is how people use them, because it's easy to have some foam to obstruct the output of the IEM and sound more muffled than it should.
 
 
in a side note, using something like the er4s(100ohm) is probably the best option given the pono's design, do you get obvious coloration or something sucky from low impedance multidrivers? the fidue a83 were getting the 10khz part a little annoying for me with my sony compared to using an amp (from rapidly trying them so I can't claim anything), is it the same here?
maybe it's so low in impedance that the pono starts to mess things up(negative feedback? no need!!!!!

who cares about having the right FR those days). <= yes that's sarcasm.

 

[H20Fidelity]

   trying all kind of tips and using the one that works best is what people should always do. and not listen too much to what others say about it. for once I'm ok with the more than subjective opinions, because the shape of an ear can be quite a mess and need specific stuff.
 
also there is foam and foam, comply alone offers different kinds with slight differences in sound. the ones for sport fail at sealing(on purpose for the ear to "breath") so in a sense we could say it makes the sound brighter ^_^. and of course there is how people use them, because it's easy to have some foam to obstruct the output of the IEM and sound more muffled than it should.
 
 
in a side note, using something like the er4s(100ohm) is probably the best option given the pono's design, do you get obvious coloration or something sucky from low impedance multidrivers? the fidue a83 were getting the 10khz part a little annoying for me with my sony compared to using an amp (from rapidly trying them so I can't claim anything), is it the same here?
maybe it's so low in impedance that the pono starts to mess things up(negative feedback? no need!!!!!

who cares about having the right FR those days). <= yes that's sarcasm.

 
 
Personally, when I tried 11ohm Fidue A83 with Pono I could hear a slight alternation compared to say DX90 which has very low output impedance producing their intended sound, I tried this briefly when the Pono arrived and only last night to confirm again.
 
The mid-range gained a slight recession and very, very slight hollowness to it, mostly detectable in vocal regions. Passable probably to most though I personally picked up something there. How do I know this? Because I've heard the outcome of 10ohm output impedance dramatically effect the low 10ohm Dunu's DN-1000 hybrid to a point the response was so skewed it rendered unlistenable. 
 
While this wasn't the case with Pono and the Fidue is probably neglectable to the human ear that it just sounds 'different' I won't use A83 with Pono player.  Firstly, because it doesn't sound 100% right, secondly because I much prefer them with DX90 anyway. Like you said, by using 100ohm ER4S I'm well out of any threshold for OI issues with Pono Player.
 
To take things further I think most low impedance dynamic drivers won't have much issue, something like the Carbo Basso Tenore sounds fine, its mostly multiple balanced armatures you want to avoid, especially those using a crossover.
 

 

[Kokomo O]

Yes, I should have noted that Comply makes many options for the tips. Indeed, I started using the T-100 model, but then realized, when my son's Etymotics got all clogged with earwax and I had to change his filters (he's 17 and you know how teenagers are), that I hadn't changed my filters in ages. I tried to do so but couldn't remove the old ones, and now I'm actually not sure there are any in there. So I bought some Tx-100s, which have their own built-in earwax filter. I don't hear any difference in sound between the two, and my hearing is very good for someone my age. As you might assume from the model number, they're just as comfortable as the T-100s.

 

[BRCMRGN]

Does anyone who has a PONO use them with JH Audio Roxanne Universal IEM's? Just wondering what the synergy is with them. I have actually heard the Pono has trouble driving some IEM's...

Just listened to the Roxanne UF driven by a Pono player - both single-ended and balanced. The Pono has no problems driving the Roxanne. Balanced required less than 1/4 volume and single-ended just over 1/4. The Roxanne sounds very headphone-like from the Pono - larger-than-life sound. Made the Heir IEM 8.0 sound like an ordinary IEM in comparison (which it most definitely isn't). The Roxanne bass was a bit better controlled in balanced mode. Don't know why I hadn't tried the Roxanne/Pono combo before, but I really like it, even in single-ended mode.

 

[doctorjazz]

Throwing my $0.02, Complys help in some situations, hurt in others. Generally do not use them, tried them on my Dunu Titan1, soothed out the sound and made them very enjoyable.

 

[olddude]

Complys were great on my Altone, ok on my Fidue, and the Pro (deep) Complys with my 846 were good, I think because of the deep insertion.  The Sensaphonic sleeves leave them all in the dust.

 

[miceblue]

Got to listen to the PonoPlayer for the first time today at a local Head-Fi meet.
Popped in my microSD card and it took about 5 minutes to scan through my ~9 GB of music. It was kinda annoying having to wait for everything to load since I just wanted to listen to the darn thing.

Tried the balanced outputs first with my K 701. It had a punchy bass response and a very smooth treble response. I was pretty impressed with the smoothness of the treble.

Tried it through the normal headphone out and I thought it sounded familiar. Wait a sec, I pull out my iPhone 4S, plug in the K 701, play the same music, and it sounded nearly identical to me! I thought to myself "there's no way this can be right..." and I pull out the FiiO HS2 headphone switcher to do volume-matched A/B testing. Yup, the 4S and the Pono sounded exactly the same to me when using 24/88.2 and 24/96 music (keep in mind that the iPhone downsamples audio to 16/44.1 and 16/48 respectively).

After that, the owner said that the soundstage should be different. So I listen really hard for any difference in soundstage, like really hard. I got the feeling that the center imaging and depth are slightly more centered with the Pono.

Then I tried it with the PM-3 since I thought well maybe the meet conditions aren't ideal and why not give them the benefit of the doubt (Innerfidelity measures the PM-3 to have -22 dB of noise isolation, which is quite a bit and rivals in-ear earphones, and the meet room itself wasn't all that loud). Basically the same thing happened, I had a really difficult time hearing any appreciable differences between my 4S and the Pono. After spending maybe 10 minutes with that setup I got the feeling that the Pono has a little more bass presence than the 4S, but again, the difference was extremely subtle to me.


TL;DR
I don't blame people for not being able to hear a difference between the iPhone and PonoPlayer. Even with my "audiophile" headphones and experienced ears, I could barely make out appreciable differences.

 

[Ruben123]

Got to listen to the PonoPlayer for the first time today at a local Head-Fi meet.
Popped in my microSD card and it took about 5 minutes to scan through my ~9 GB of music. It was kinda annoying having to wait for everything to load since I just wanted to listen to the darn thing.

Tried the balanced outputs first with my K 701. It had a punchy bass response and a very smooth treble response. I was pretty impressed with the smoothness of the treble.

Tried it through the normal headphone out and I thought it sounded familiar. Wait a sec, I pull out my iPhone 4S, plug in the K 701, play the same music, and it sounded nearly identical to me! I thought to myself "there's no way this can be right..." and I pull out the FiiO HS2 headphone switcher to do volume-matched A/B testing. Yup, the 4S and the Pono sounded exactly the same to me when using 24/88.2 and 24/96 music (keep in mind that the iPhone downsamples audio to 16/44.1 and 16/48 respectively).

After that, the owner said that the soundstage should be different. So I listen really hard for any difference in soundstage, like really hard. I got the feeling that the center imaging and depth are slightly more centered with the Pono.

Then I tried it with the PM-3 since I thought well maybe the meet conditions aren't ideal and why not give them the benefit of the doubt (Innerfidelity measures the PM-3 to have -22 dB of noise isolation, which is quite a bit and rivals in-ear earphones, and the meet room itself wasn't all that loud). Basically the same thing happened, I had a really difficult time hearing any appreciable differences between my 4S and the Pono. After spending maybe 10 minutes with that setup I got the feeling that the Pono has a little more bass presence than the 4S, but again, the difference was extremely subtle to me.


TL;DR
I don't blame people for not being able to hear a difference between the iPhone and PonoPlayer. Even with my "audiophile" headphones and experienced ears, I could barely make out appreciable differences.

What do you expect? An audioplayer plays audio and if it does that OK, it should be not different from another. As long as the volume played through your headphone is loud enough, there should not be any differences.
 
Before this made you all start a war against me, if all DAPs should not should the same, even then, the Iphone 4s is actually a good player too. 

 

[miceblue]

What do you expect? An audioplayer plays audio and if it does that OK, it should be not different from another. As long as the volume played through your headphone is loud enough, there should not be any differences.

Before this made you all start a war against me, if all DAPs should not should the same, even then, the Iphone 4s is actually a good player too. 

I didn't know what to expect honestly. I've read reviews like the one from David Pogue where people couldn't tell a difference between the iPhone and the PonoPlayer and a bunch of audiophiles gave that review flack because blah blah they didn't use "audiophile" headphones blah blah people are too used to the iPhone and people thus liked it better blah blah the A/B switcher was of really poor quality and blah blah like that. People made assumptions that the PonoPlayer is no better than the iPhone just because of that review, which in all fairness is quite reasonable to say considering the data they gathered, and those people also received flack because they haven't heard the PonoPlayer themselves and thus their assumptions are just outright wrong because owners of it claim it sounds so good, or something like that.

Then you see glowing reviews for the PonoPlayer like from Stereophile and somewhat from Innerfidelity.

So I really had no idea what to expect with all of the mixed opinions.


I tried the test myself and I agree that I found the PonoPlayer to basically be no different from the iPhone in terms of sound despite having "audiophile" headphones, hearing the thing myself, using high-resolution music files, with and without an A/B switch. Do I think Pono is pono? No not really because upon hearing the headphone out for the first time it immediately reminded me a lot of my iPhone. The whole "famous people saying the Pono sounds really excellent" marketing was really overboard there unless they haven't heard an iPhone before.

The balanced outputs of the PonoPlayer were added on after the Kickstarter campaign ended, and I do think that mode sounds a lot better.

 

[Ruben123]

Happy to read you saved a lot of money by not buying an extra device that does nothing extra for you. I dont blame you at all, some reviewers are or plagued by placebo effects or being paid by shops... of course they rave about the product. They are paid to do that. Some, that is.
 
Be happy and listen to your music without worrying about your gear!

 

[Brooko]

Interesting thoughts miceblue.  Can I ask how long you spent with it?
 
Count me as one of the people that heard a difference - and if you've read any of my reviews you'll know I'm a pretty objective guy.  I had the PONO with me for a week, only listened to it single-ended.  Like I said though, I spent considerable time with the PONO getting used to its nuances.  But when I did my critical listening, and especially my A/B - I did so with the Fiio X5 and PONO (to a lesser extent the iPhone 5S) all properly volume matched with a calibrated SPL meter.  The PONO sounded closer tonally to the iPhone - the X5 is slightly warmer. But the PONO also has a slightly holographic nature to it - and although my testing was sighted (wife was out - so no chance to do it blind), I could pick the difference - subtle but there.
 
If anything I would have guessed an inbuilt DSP to be honest - I even commented on it when I wrote it up.
 
If you'd asked me initially - when I first heard it, I'd have told you that it sounded pretty much the same as the iPhone.  But after a week with it - my opinion changed. To be honest, I wasn't expecting much when I first got it.  If the battery life was better, and it came with software EQ, I'd buy one - IMO it was that good.
 
Oh - and it was a borrowed unit from another Head-Fier.  No strings.  Unit had to be returned. Nothing to influence me to be anything less than honest