[dudeskis]

Just googled and found the following:


https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1003614822/ponomusic-where-your-soul-rediscovers-music/comments?cursor=6840379&direction=asc

(quoted, by a commenter on the Kickstarter site, to have apparently been said in the May 28th official PONO Update):




(Note: Bold emphasis added by me)

That was the comment that gave me hope for the service. It makes sense since a vetting process that has integrity and wins the trust of consumers is the only differentiator from other hd music services. If they have a guy listening to and vetting all the music that is a valid excuse for charging a few more bucks for an album.

 

[miceblue]

This is not PONO-specific, but it is nonetheless relevant to the discussion:

http://www.whathifi.com/news/new-formal-definition-high-resolution-audio-agreed

I don't like that website. Also, that news is old news, nearly 2 months old.
http://www.ce.org/News/News-Releases/Press-Releases/2014/DEG,-CEA,-The-Recording-Academy%C2%AE-and-Major-Labels.aspx


http://www.whathifi.com/news/high-res-audio-science-behind-numbers

The very best classical recordings have a dynamic range of around 60dB, while it’s not unusual to have pop recordings hovering around the 15dB mark.

DR15 pop albums are pretty darn rare. You'd be lucky to get a DR11 pop album.
I don't even think DR60 exists.
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list/dr-max/desc

Even if DR60 did exist:

What bits buys you is dynamic range – the difference between the quietest and loudest sounds on the recording: 24-bit gives a 144dB range, 16-bit 96dB.

So 16-bit audio is good enough for listeners, as it should be and always has been.

 

[Mython]

Even if DR60 did exist:

So 16-bit audio is good enough for listeners, as it should be and always has been.

 
 
 
Errr.. who says Hi-Res is only about dynamic range?
 
Have a chat to Rob Watts and he'll be quick to point out that timing accuracy is vital for realistic reproduction, and, AFAIK, 16bit isn't the best for this (although 16 bit can still sound very respectable if mastered well).

 

[Ableza]

I'm not being confrontational only pointing out what I see as uninformed statements. Unless you folks see it as confrontational to disagree

 

[Ableza]

And to the person from the UK: in this country getting the courts involved is precisely what is supposed to happen. As a patent and copyright officer my job is to decide when suits should be filed. You call this overly litigious but it is the system we have. So like I suggested earlier, if people feel defrauded, a class action may be the correct action to get it settled.

 

[miceblue]

So 16-bit audio is good enough for listeners, as it should be and always has been.

Errr.. who says Hi-Res is only about dynamic range?

Have a chat to Rob Watts and he'll be quick to point out that timing accuracy is vital for realistic reproduction, and, AFAIK, 16bit isn't the best for this (although 16 bit can still sound very respectable if mastered well).

Maybe so, but can you hear a difference. The last time I checked, more often than not, people cannot. I've done my own tests and I can't either.

Bit depth has been shown to make only a difference in noise floor.
https://www.xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml
^ skip to the "bit-depth" chapter selection

or this
http://www.head-fi.org/t/415361/24bit-vs-16bit-the-myth-exploded

or this
http://www.sonicscoop.com/2013/08/29/why-almost-everything-you-thought-you-knew-about-bit-depth-is-probably-wrong/

or even Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_bit_depth


How is it possible that bit depth affects the timing when a signal is being sampled at a fixed interval?



Despite all of this though, even if 24-bit audio can provide the tiniest amount of, probably unnoticeable, differences in timing,
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/its-masters-damit

 

[fenderf4i]

HD Tracks isn't participating in any type of fraud. You purchase a hi-res file from them, and that's what you download from them. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nowhere do they state that their hi-res files must come from an analog or hi-res master. A hi-res file made from a lower-res master is still a hi-res file. Like Ableza said, buyer beware. Don't assume you're getting something that they never state they're selling.

 

[gikigill]

There's this little thing about omissions that HDTracks forgot.

It's not Hi Res because it doesn't originate from a Hi Res source. No matter how much you dress this mutton, it won't magically become a spring lamb.

 

[estreeter]

OK - we've all had our say on the ethics of content providers upsampling CD masters and fobbing them off as 'hi-rez' - let's just hope that Pono can minimise the extent to which this happens when this rollercoaster finally goes live. 

 

[Currawong]

Yes, discuss the Pono please. 

 

[gikigill]

Definitely, if Pono can get us real Hi Def I will support them as I backed their campaign but didn't follow through due to a few doubts. The Ayre name swayed me but not enough I suppose.

 

[Mython]

How is it possible that bit depth affects the timing when a signal is being sampled at a fixed interval?
 

 
 
Sorry, it was the early hours of the morning, here in the UK, when I posted that. I had a 'brain fart' !

 

[Ableza]

Like I've said before: the Pono is either going to be a great sounding player with a great sounding but limited high-res content library, or it's going to be an interesting but useless conversation piece in a few years, and potentially it will be both.  But as an enthusiast I am excited about the effort and I put my $400 in to the Kickstarter campaign to get a signed version and I look forward to seeing what develops.

 

[flatmap]

  Like I've said before: the Pono is either going to be a great sounding player with a great sounding but limited high-res content library, or it's going to be an interesting but useless conversation piece in a few years, and potentially it will be both.  But as an enthusiast I am excited about the effort and I put my $400 in to the Kickstarter campaign to get a signed version and I look forward to seeing what develops.

+1
 
Very much hope that he succeeds.  Fingers crossed.  And if he does not, an Ayre-designed player for $300 is likely to be a stellar consolation prize.  

 

[doublea71]

I kind of wish I had backed Pono rather than the Geek Wave...I don't know why I would force myself to wait so long for something that may not live up to the hype. The Pono does have that weird form factor, though. At least we have some feedback saying that it does indeed sound very good...October isn't too far off.