[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not sure if calling people crazy is the way to go if you want to be taken seriously in an internet community. A good rule I try to use is I like to type what I might say to the persons face. Hey ya never know you may see them at a meet some day

You've called me crazy multiple times!

About twenty years ago I was taught by a person to listen differently to music than I had been doing before. If you had asked me to pick out which guitar was playing what before, when there were two or more, I wouldn't have been able to do it. It took effort, but as time went on I could pick things out easily. My hearing changed as my attention changed. When I first started listening to different headphones, amps, cables, etc., I wasn't able to hear in the same way I hear clearly now. It's a type of attention. My tastes have changed in turn, what pleases me gets reshaped, and my opinions on what's important (cables, for example) have changed as I've learned to hear and identify different elements more clearly. I still consider my hearing average. My attention, though, has become tuned, as it were, and things I didn't hear before are becoming more and more interesting. I wonder what it will be like in five years, hoping I get exposure to more and different gear.

I still question what I hear, question what others hear, and question what makes it so. Questioning is good, but just because we may not be able to identify what others claim, doesn't make it not true, even if we use our our own ears.

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif You've called me crazy multiple times!

While that may be true it was to your face after a few beers and always after you told me my gear sounded crappy

Oh and as anyone knows no one takes me seriously around here anyway and that's the way I like it

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif While that may be true it was to your face after a few beers and always after you told me my gear sounded crappy Oh and as anyone knows no one takes me seriously around here anyway and that's the way I like it

Maybe that's why I'm crazy: I do take you seriously

But your gear still sounded crappy.

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe that's why I'm crazy: I do take you seriously But your gear still sounded crappy.

Can't be! Oh wait...those aren't iBuds in his profile.

 

[Svperstar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nobody is right except me, so I question everything everyone else does or says, but accept without ever questioning what I do or say. Think I'm kidding? You're all the same way. Admit it. It's not a double standard at all, it's just that we see things through our own eyes. We can all be self critical, sure. But ultimately we must live with ourselves and the decisions that we make, so we do. We have no other choice but to rationalize our own behaviour, and therefore come to accept ourselves. Yet, we don't have to do this when it comes to what others may say or do, so we evaluate all of that on an entirely different level than we do with repect to ourselves. This is why, like it or not, there tends to be a lot of argumentation when it comes to things like the "great cable debate" because people just can't see that, maybe just maybe, there is something else to learn beyond what they have to say about the matter. You may pride yourself on examining everything critically, but so too does the other guy. And guess whose words or actions he's critially examining? That's right! Yours! But what about you? You're doing the same to him. Meanwhile you're both convinced, whether you even realize it or not, that your own perception of the world is the right one. It's human nature and there is no getting around it no matter how self aware you might be. I guess my point in all of this is, ya sure, it's good to be a critical thinker and not to take too much for its surface value, but keep in mind that no matter how bright you might be, the same rules apply to you as well. So just as with your example of the Ph.D. in history who may not have his facts straight, you may not either, and even when you do, you might be missing the bigger picture. As may I, at this very moment, because I can only see things the way that I see them. Around it goes in circles, so just be happy with whatever critical thinking skills you happen to have and don't worry too much if you don't think that you think often enough. For the most part, it's overrated anyway. Especially the part about being right. More often than not it's more fun to be wrong. At least you can learn something from your mistakes.

I knew if I didn't specifically address this in my post someone would accuse me of it. I tried to address it by saying its also not too good to be too cynical but I suppose I should have added "or think you are the only valid opinion"

You misunderstand me, I am not some self important college junior that thinks I have it All Figured Out, and I am the only objective person on head-fi, and my opinion is always right. I just pointed out in a lengthy post a couple days ago I was completely wrong on the SA5000s for instance.

Everyone is biased, and I have been wrong many times, I even managed to screw up this poll(lol). If you look at my sig you see I have a Gilmore Lite. I would never say that only my opinion is on the Gilmore Lite is valid. I encourage everyone to be a critical thinker about everything.

Also in regard to circular logic and such, I am not trying to expand what I am saying into a larger philosophical debate, since these tend to lead to "you know..........what do you TRUELY KNOW.............woah....think about it!" only using bigger words and better grammar.

My point which may have been lost somewhere in the words is that in hi-fi audio circles, there seems to be this notion that anything anyone says about any piece of gear is perfectly valid, since audio is highly subjective(keep in mind, I support anyone being able to say anything they want).

As I said in my post last night, taking that logic to its extreme means that we could for instance, have someone sell a black box that contains nothing but a weight and an RCA pass through. A few magazine reviews, and giddy posts later and people would be spending their cash on a box that literally does nothing.

By the logic of "If it sounds good to you, it is good" if someone opened up this box and said "Hey! There is nothing in here buy an RCA loop out!" This person would be a pure villain ruining everyones good time.

That is contrary to what I think about every other subject, so I don't see why this hobby should get a "pass"

Extend that logic outside of audio, and something like Consumer Reports is pure evil. Also those social scientists with their experiments on perception?? Oh they just want to ruin everyones day.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can't be! Oh wait...those aren't iBuds in his profile.

Hah! Not quite, but it was his Sound Quest 84 and PS1s that sounded horrible (and I love the PS1s with his HD2). I also wasn't liking the Transporter, but that one might have had more to do with my crappy mood that day. He has since gotten rid of some of the offending items.

 

[pfloding]

Hi there!
Of course we should question audiophile claims, as any other claims!
That doesn't mean we should spoil all the conneisures' (spelling?) fun by repeatedly bringing up ABX in every possible context. That sure can spoil any possible fun.

I may read your whole posting later, but just saw something about FLAC vs. using a non-open format. Obviously, if you are with an open source format you are set for the future, wheras in the other case, who knows? (Just imagine the amount of old Word and Acrobat documents that we will not be able to read in the future.)

I'm just holding out for FLAC2 that will probably be as efficient as the best out there. (That's what usually happens.)

Regards

 

[pfloding]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverlordXenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Svperstar, I believe highly in free speech. But that also means all sides are allowed to voice their opinions. That means you should be ready to pay the price if you say that green marker around the edge of a CD actually works.

What's the price for saying that, nowdays?

 

[pfloding]

Let me just add that for those scientifically minded that likes shooting down "outrageous claims" it was a bit embarrasing when the "bits are bits" argument went terribly wrong. As it turned out, those "crazy subjectivist audiophools" who claimed that an SPDIF link affected sound were very right. Whops! Jitter.. didn't think about that.

So before saying "it can't be that way" I think a measure of humility might be in order. It is not seldom that the people with just a little technical knowledge (as opposed to deep knowledge) are the first to fire thier cannons.

And that's ALL I have to say on this inflamed subject!

 

[LostOne.TR]

I also made the mistake...it just read so naturally "yes, question everything before i spend my money." Because I sure as hell question it before I pour my money into something.

 

[catscratch]

Not only do I agree with your point of view completely and wholeheartedly, I also think that you've hit onto something much larger than the scope of the topic at hand: people's refusal or inability to think critically about, well, just about anything. This is the biggest fault of our educational system - that it stresses memorization and regurgitation of information over critical thinking - and it is one of the single biggest problems that our society has to deal with, though it hardly realizes it (obviously, since it can't think critically to save its life).

Yes, I'm generalizing.

At this point, I'd like to come off all high and mighty and say that I'm objective about everything, but not really - I'm perfectionistic, passionate about this hobby, and fundamentally lazy and reluctant to change, so I always end up with a system that I'm not entirely happy with, while not doing enough to sort out the problems.

But, this isn't a confessional. Let's just say that I believe that critical thinking and metacognition are some of the most important skills that a person could possibly have, and if they aren't there, then it is a very serious problem.

Think about everything.

Blind faith is insanity.

 

[Kees]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif funny after the recent threads in the cable forum the issue isn't really if you agree or not with the claim it's the way both sides voice their points that gets things off track. I think it's ok to say "hey I really don't get the cable burn in thing" or I have never heard the cable burn in thing" or even "I have tried multiple cables and have never heard a difference" but when it becomes "only an idiot would spend money on cables" that I object to. I like it when people question some of the broader or outragous claims in a rational way. I do not think it serves the community when people who have not heard the range of items being discussed or have not even tried something and based on an article or something they read on a web page they say the person is out of their gord. For example many members have heard headphones that have been recabled and there is a fair amount of anecdotal evidence to suggest there is an audible difference. Yet people who have not heard the objects in question say it is not possible? Or people who have heard it say it makes the unit twice as good. Both claims are probably not accurate but because of the emotion we invest in being RIGHT people can dig in and escalate the discourse into a verbal knife fight. I would love to see us discuss with the objective to understand rather than dominate or further an audio crusade.

[size=medium]X2[/size]

 

[Kosmic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Something that's always confused me about this argument. I don't know if you personally subscribe to it but so many on this forum do that I have to bring it up. The audio engineer doing the recording has a choice to make. After taking into account the HTF, either they're going to do what sounds good on their gear, and their gear has a fr curve f_1(x) associated with it, or they're going to target gear with a specific fr curve (f_2(x)). That includes targeting a system with a completely flat FR. Either way we have a curve f(x) associated with the way they intend the music to be heard. Now let's look at your gear. Considering that almost no one has gear that likely matches the curve that the engineer established as the domain, you're actually hearing is the product of the engineer's established curve f(x) and the cumulative effect of your gear, i.e. g(x). In other words, the listening domain is f(x)*g(x). But we don't want that. We want f(x). In other words, by the "engineer knows best" analogy, don't we essentially require an eq to produce f^(-1)(x) to get us back to parity? Why do these people then argue so vehemently against an EQ, when it seems like they should be arguing for it?

Yes.

Once upon a time I would never be seen dead with EQ.

I've since shaken off my anally retentive shackles and believe now that refined use of EQ can help find the musical sweet spot for your gear (ear?).

If you enjoy music.

 

[Quaddy]

not wrong, not right.

 

[Agnostic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not only do I agree with your point of view completely and wholeheartedly, I also think that you've hit onto something much larger than the scope of the topic at hand: people's refusal or inability to think critically about, well, just about anything. This is the biggest fault of our educational system - that it stresses memorization and regurgitation of information over critical thinking - and it is one of the single biggest problems that our society has to deal with, though it hardly realizes it (obviously, since it can't think critically to save its life). Yes, I'm generalizing. At this point, I'd like to come off all high and mighty and say that I'm objective about everything, but not really - I'm perfectionistic, passionate about this hobby, and fundamentally lazy and reluctant to change, so I always end up with a system that I'm not entirely happy with, while not doing enough to sort out the problems. But, this isn't a confessional. Let's just say that I believe that critical thinking and metacognition are some of the most important skills that a person could possibly have, and if they aren't there, then it is a very serious problem. Think about everything. Blind faith is insanity.

I have to agree with you on this. Sadly.....