[Vul Kuolun]

Riboge, sorry for beeing rude. I misunderstood the grammar thing as a side blow, as i remembered a similar situation in another thread.

PhilS, you and some others keep constantly complaining about people with a skeptic attitude, calling everybody not stroking your ego a troll. You know, having a discussion assumes having different viewpoints. No different viewpoints, no discussion.
This poll is about people who hear differences and people who don't. It's such a shame for you to feel so molested just because someone is posting things not backing up your (apparently quite sensible?) position.

But the more we discuss here,the more i'm afraid for many subjectivists this forum is not supposed to be a discussion forum, but an opportunity for collective masturbation.

As soon as somebody asks some critical questions, people like you start weeping about the bad, bad trolls. How about an interesting, cogently argument instead of complaining?

After all, i've come to the conclusion that people like you and the op are just peeved because all you wanted to do was to show how small the community of skeptics here on HeadFi really is, and having a stiffy over it. Sorry i pissed in your soup.

 

[JaZZ]

To be skeptic is a good thing. Pretending to know the truth and making others look like dumbheads is something else.
.

 

[883dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vul Kuolun In fact, i believe people like you and the op are just peeved because all you wanted to do was to show how small the community of skeptics here on HeadFi really is, and to slobber over it. Sorry i pissed in your soup.

Why do you keep trying to read between the lines looking for words that are not there?

Do you ever accept anything at face value.

I'm sure that you will read this post as..."83 to 23 ha ha ha ha ha I knew you were wrong"

Quit always being the skeptic, somethings in life are really just as simple as they seem. No one is out to get you

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vul Kuolun PhilS, you and some others keep constantly complaining about people with a skeptic attitude, calling everybody not stroking your ego a troll. You know, having a discussion assumes having different viewpoints. No different viewpoints, no discussion.

It is the way that you present your viewpoints and your general attitude that makes you a troll, not the fact that your belief differs.

 

[meat01]

Vul, The reason you are probably being called a troll, is because you have not voted yet nor have you posted the cables you have heard. The poll did not ask whether you are a skeptic or not and it did not ask how one interprets the poll. You have done everything except what the topic asked for.

 

[Jeff E]

Oh dear. This thread is on the road to lockdown, I fear.

I've got an idea.

Why don't we pretend that the reason we visit this forum is because of what we have in common: our love of music and our interest in the associated equipment used to enjoy it.

Perhaps, if we ceased the ad hominem attacks and focused on the OP's intent it could be saved.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vul Kuolun PhilS, you and some others keep constantly complaining about people with a skeptic attitude, calling everybody not stroking your ego a troll. You know, having a discussion assumes having different viewpoints. No different viewpoints, no discussion. This poll is about people who hear differences and people who don't. It's such a shame for you to feel so molested just because someone is posting things not backing up your (apparently quite sensible?) position. But the more we discuss here,the more i'm afraid for many subjectivists this forum is not supposed to be a discussion forum, but an opportunity for collective masturbation. As soon as somebody asks some critical questions, people like you start weeping about the bad, bad trolls. How about an interesting, cogently argument instead of complaining? After all, i've come to the conclusion that people like you and the op are just peeved because all you wanted to do was to show how small the community of skeptics here on HeadFi really is, and having a stiffy over it. Sorry i pissed in your soup.

You missed my point entirely, as you have missed other's before, because you don't care to listen what is really being said. You just repeat the same arguments over and over on this and other threads, to wit; (1) cables don't make a difference and anybody who thinks differently is foolish, (2), this point of view is appropriately expressed on any thread relating to cables, as even the mere suggestion that cables make a difference must be countered on every occasion, and (3) anybody who disagrees wtih the foregoing proposition is just interested in censoring discussion, doesn't want to hear an alternative point of view, or merely wants his ego stroked.

You just don't get it (not regarding cable differences, as to which there are legitimate points of view on both sides, but on what is appropriate on certain threads), and you never will. No offense, but I won't waste my time with you any longer.

 

[awptickes]

I could not believe the difference when I built my own silver cables. At first there was very little bass, and they sounded narrow, but they broadened out after a few hours, and now the bass extends a bit more.

Comparing them to copper, the silver sounds cleaner, like someone flipped the mud switch off. It's like wearing glasses and contacts, sure glasses work, but contacts are closer to correct. (Disclaimer: I wear neither glasses nor contacts, my brother does, and he has described them in depth to me)

I would buy silver cables all over again. It makes me wonder what a difference it makes elsewhere.

 

[ralphp@optonline]

Well I read through most of this troublesome thread and it appears that it has become a rather perfect thread for Halloween in that it seems to be the old subjectivist versus objectivist debate in disguise. Funny how no one has mentioned that up to this point.

I've always found the objectivists to be rather pushy and very easily offended within the world of audio. Perhaps it's because of all the wild claims and snake oil salemen out there trying to get rich quick with things like magic clocks, brilliant pebbles and other charms. Or maybe it's just a bit of jealousy, not being able to afford all those mega-buck components, speakers and cables. I don't know but their tone can be down right nasty at times.

I try to take a more measured approach. I know from years of listening that I can't possibly hear everything there is to know about a piece of audio equipment in any kind of A/B test, be it blind or otherwise, after all, suppose you were listening to a recording of a string quartet but the equipment did not reproduce piano all that well? Or vice versa.

And if you don't hear the differences in cable, amps, speakers, headphones, etc. GREAT, good for you - you've just saved yourself a ton of money, now go stand outside your local Mercedes Benz dealership and tell their customers to go and buy Chevys since a Chevy will get them from point A to B as well as a Benz will. Or tell Rolex wears that Timexes tell time as well as their Rolexes do. But whatever you do, just leave us audiophiles the heck alone.

 

[003]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl The problem with this poll is that many (notice I didn't say "all") cable nay-sayers have never even bothered to listen to any aftermarket cables. Their mind is made up already. You need another choice: "I've never listened to aftermarket cables, but I still don't hear a difference."

While you have a very valid point there, I have in fact listened to very expensive interconnects and compared them to the cheapest, crappiest interconnects than come stock in "home theater" equipment from best buy. I hear absolutely zero difference.

And no, it is not because my ears suck. I can successfully ABX FLAC and 320kbps CBR mp3s.

And when you sit back and think about it, why should cables make a difference? After all, they are bottlenecked by hundreds of factors. Some of these include, the wiring inside amps, dacs, etc... The traces on the PCB inside amps, dacs, etc..., the wire connecting the driver of the headphone to the cable. There are many more. I just listed the major ones.

 

[Vul Kuolun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat01 Vul, The reason you are probably being called a troll, is because you have not voted yet nor have you posted the cables you have heard. The poll did not ask whether you are a skeptic or not and it did not ask how one interprets the poll. You have done everything except what the topic asked for.

IC:
Straight wire Chorus
Standard IC's
Microphone cable i buy at a local store for maybe 4 or 5 $; I do the soldering myself most of the time.

Powerchord:
Audio Agile, (was about 60$; today i know it's a standard cable made by a big german cablemanufacturer for industry and stuff. It sells for a fractional amount of what i payed for)
Standard stuff

Speakercables:
Various DIY concepts: braided, "abused" industry type cable, standard speaker cable with 1,5 an 2,5mm2

Power-strip:
DIY- modified, power conditioner included (DIY)
Standard, not too ugly type of thing


I heard differences back in the days, when i wished to hear them. Today i don't.

Today, i'm just glad i survived the suicidal DIY experiments with 220V and didn't burn the house down.




You know, sometimes i think maybe one day patrick82 is coming back to HeadFi slipping in my clothes.

But first, i'm waiting on the guys to tell me unless a cable costs 100$, it isn't worth a thing. But the point is, i know how expectation can change the sound.
How about you?

BTW, i do definetly not wanna be perceived as a troll. As there were some serious points in the last posts, let me tell you it's not my goal to get on anybodys nerves. Doesn't change my views though.

 

[Patrick82]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vul Kuolun You know, sometimes i think maybe one day patrick82 is coming back to HeadFi slipping in my clothes.

Yes, when I'm deaf and 100+ years old I will come back and tell everyone I don't hear a difference anymore.

 

[NightWoundsTime]

Voted no. Been around here a decent amount of time, heard a decent amount of gear, and I've never actually heard a difference in wires. I've heard plenty of other people I trust proclaim differences in cables, so I believe they're there, I just don't have the patience or wish to really hear them. In the meantime I have *decent* cables installed in my system just for peace of mind that I'm not really missing anything. With that I'm pretty happy.

 

[883dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vul Kuolun IC: Straight wire Chorus Standard IC's Microphone cable i buy at a local store for maybe 4 or 5 $; I do the soldering myself most of the time. Powerchord: Audio Agile, (was about 60$; today i know it's a standard cable made by a big german cablemanufacturer for industry and stuff. It sells for a fractional amount of what i payed for) Standard stuff Speakercables: Various DIY concepts: braided, "abused" industry type cable, standard speaker cable with 1,5 an 2,5mm2 Power-strip: DIY- modified, power conditioner included (DIY) Standard, not too ugly type of thing I heard differences back in the days, when i wished to hear them. Today i don't. Today, i'm just glad i survived the suicidal DIY experiments with 220V and didn't burn the house down. You know, sometimes i think maybe one day patrick82 is coming back to HeadFi slipping in my clothes. But first, i'm waiting on the guys to tell me unless a cable costs 100$, it isn't worth a thing. But the point is, i know how expectation can change the sound. How about you? BTW, i do definetly not wanna be perceived as a troll. As there were some serious points in the last posts, let me tell you it's not my goal to get on anybodys nerves. Doesn't change my views though.

Thanks for the post

I have tried lots of different cables in my system (mostly speaker rig, as I am fairly new to headphones) and have found differences in some cables, and price has had nothing to do with it.

Why would I only hear differences in some cables and not all?

Could audible differences be due to pre-conceived notions???

At this point in my experience I would have say it's an almost, absolutely, just about positive, quite certainly, maybe,..... no.

At one point I went to my dealers and came home with 3 cables, all relatively high priced, and did not hear a difference.
I went back a few months later and brought back several more, in this batch there was one set of cables that made me smile, my listening enjoyment went up. I switched the cables in and out of the system over the next several weeks (also had my girlfriend switch them) and always enjoyed the sound of my system more with that cable in the loop.

So today I have my entire system connected with these cables.
Do they still make a difference today??? I have not tried switching them out since. All I know is that I fully enjoy sitting in my chair listening to my favorite music.

I wonder if "synergy" has anything to do with it?

I must say that cables were just about the last component in my system, and they have made the LEAST AMOUNT OF DIFFERENCE, they never changed things from night and day. The upgrade that has had the most audible improvement to me has been a phono cartridge.

To me this is a strange hobby. I have a friend who is also an audiophile, we get into it on ocassion about different sounds in audio reproduction, we usually pull the trump card which is "I guess that you hear differently than I do"

As for changing someones views....never....sharing experiences...you bet!!!!

 

[Electro Point]

I've listened with stock interconnections up to entry-level "audiophile" and I do hear a difference. Just is that there is a certain extent you should upgrade to and the cables will be transparent in your setup. Like my setup would not benefit anymore with $150 RCA interconnection then it would with a good solid $80 cable.

Also other factors would concern the improvement with cables, such as if your upgrading to higher-end speaker wires you have to keep in mine if internally your speakers are wired with good cables or else won't make that much of a difference.