[Vul Kuolun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS Once again, you're not really responding to the precise point under discussion. You are just changing the focus of the discussion, and using extreme examples to attempt to make the same old points you have made previously. It's really difficult to have any reasonably focused discussion with you.

It's the same from my perspective. Did you expand on any of my questions? I wouldn't call your last post a reasonably focused one, too.

So, where exactly do you find the examples to extreme? Replace "golfballs" with "one meter interconnect", and there you are in the beautiful world of hifi cables.

P.S.: If your "speaker"-argument wasn't an awkward attempt on changing the subject, i don't know.

P.P.S.: How much more precise would you wish the answer on your poor "speaker"-example to be?

 

[gsansite]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 In another sport I tweak my stick so I can stroke it smoother and more relaxed. I fine tune the thickness and weight for better stick and ball impact, the tip of my shaft is important too so I need to roughen it up. I also need to polish my stick for smoother stroking action, but after a while it gets too wet so I just use a towel now..

I find kleenex works better than towels. No need to wash them after.

 

[hYdrociTy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsansite I find kleenex works better than towels. No need to wash them after.

How do you fine tune the weight and thickness? Pumps only seem to work temporarily!

 

[hciman77]

I have a few questions, these are genuine questions , I am trying to get a handle on the mechanics of cable differences.

1) A cable cannot increase the signal it can only transmit it i.e it cannot amplify it in any way ?

2) So a cable passes a signal through hopefully with minimal signal loss ?

3) So differences must relate in some way to the amount of signal loss ?

4) Can a cable attenuate some frequencies more than others ?, if so how does it do that ?

 

[warnsey]

Maybe it's placebo but i always recognise more bass with copper cables as opposed to silver.

 

[clarke68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hciman77 3) So differences must relate in some way to the amount of signal loss ?

Yup...and psychoacoustically, the frequency spectrum is relative, so an attenuation of treble can sound the same a boost in the bass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hciman77 4) Can a cable attenuate some frequencies more than others ?, if so how does it do that ?

Same way a speaker crossover does...through inductance and capacitance.

 

[Jon L]

If the rig is decent enough, the sonic difference between say, a decent all-copper IC and a decent all-silver cables (even with similar geometry, etc) should be like a fly-swatter on a fruitfly... Thwackk!

 

[chrisco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hciman77 The AudioLineOut cable is six inches long - how long is the original interconnect. Blind AB testing does show a big difference in performance for Video cables based solely on length, as the cable gets longer i.e 12 foot or more the perceived performance becomes clearly degraded. I dont know if that holds for audio cable, probably to a lesser extent due to the smaller bandwidth, though I notice a clear volume drop adding a headphone extension cable (12ft ).

Hicman,

Both interconnects are of comprable lengh- about 7 inches.

I cannot explain from a technical point of view why there is a clear difference in SQ as evidenced by conclusive objective blind testing. I can't explain why from a technical point of view why one interconnect is so obviously better/a far more compelling sound. I can only say what I am experiencing.

I have given people an exact list of equipement that they are welcome to buy and blind test for themselves that will conclusively show other people what I am talking about.

The differences are so apparent that prior highs were harsh enough to prevent listening over an hour or so and now they are not. The bass has much more impact, so much so it is like listening to differing headphones.

I am either BSing people or I am telling the truth and if I am telling the truth it at least shows that cable can make a difference given certain equipement.

To me saying this cannot happen when it is Soooo apparent because you can't trust your own ears is like saying I can't trust my own eyes....maybe I can't see the moniter maybe I just think I can......before anyone jumps on that I point again to the objective blind testing results..

Hey hicman I get where you are coming from because you are trying to find out why? You are trying to find out why or how SQ could change due to differing cables. I am not interesting in how or why on this issue myself- I am being a little ignorant and just happy with what I have at present in terms of SQ.

I do wonder if the fact that the little dot micro and sennheiser are supposed be very neutral sounding and less coloured and I am listening to atrac at 256kbs allows for the differences to be heard when comparing an extreme like....cheap thin copper cable to a solid silver cable? I don't have a clue....

 

[Vul Kuolun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hciman77 I have a few questions, these are genuine questions , I am trying to get a handle on the mechanics of cable differences. 1) A cable cannot increase the signal it can only transmit it i.e it cannot amplify it in any way ? 2) So a cable passes a signal through hopefully with minimal signal loss ? 3) So differences must relate in some way to the amount of signal loss ? 4) Can a cable attenuate some frequencies more than others ?, if so how does it do that ?

That's what i call strikingly logical.

For Point 4, i've seen people mathematical more blessed than me figuring out that with extreme parameters, under disadvantageus circumstances (meaning exreme input- and outputimpedances of the used gear, which are almost excluded with modern, well constructed gear. Suspicious for having this extreme parameters are rather very old devices or exotic constructions like minimalistic valve devices) a cable can actually cause a really slight (!) roll off in highest (!) treble regions. For what i've learned so far, that should be about it.

 

[883dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hciman77 I have a few questions, these are genuine questions , I am trying to get a handle on the mechanics of cable differences. 1) A cable cannot increase the signal it can only transmit it i.e it cannot amplify it in any way ? 2) So a cable passes a signal through hopefully with minimal signal loss ? 3) So differences must relate in some way to the amount of signal loss ? 4) Can a cable attenuate some frequencies more than others ?, if so how does it do that ?

THis is what I understand (please take it with a grain of salt, as by no means is it TRUTH)

1) A cable can not improve the sound quality, it can only degrade it.

2) The signal loss in any cable should be minimal if it is made properly ie connectors tight, cable not fraded. If a cable looses signal I would think it should be repaired or tossed

3) Any component in the audio chain, from source to transducer will have some amount of coloration, the theory is the better the component the less the coloration, the job of a good cable is to transmit the signal with as little added coloration as possible. Therefore I believe the better the cable is the more true it is to the original signal. Also blocks EMI and FMI

4) I have read that different material can have an effect on attenuation of certain frequencies, I think that silver wire will accentuate the upper region and copper will affect the bass. I think that this has to do with the crystalline structure of the material OFC is better that regular copper due to the length of the crystals, as the signal does not have to "hop from crystal to crystal"

A lot of what makes a cable expensive is the man power in the manufacturing process. By using different grades of wire, dielectrics, connectors, weaving patterns, etc

Hope this helps, and is not too far off base

 

[digitalmind]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick82 In another sport I tweak my stick so I can stroke it smoother and more relaxed. I fine tune the thickness and weight for better stick and ball impact, the tip of my shaft is important too so I need to roughen it up. I also need to polish my stick for smoother stroking action, but after a while it gets too wet so I just use a towel now. In audio I tweak my system so I can hear it better. It's the same thing.

You're talking about pool right, not sex?

I'm sorry for this little break here, please continue with the thread.

 

[883dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisco Hicman, I am either BSing people or I am telling the truth and if I am telling the truth it at least shows that cable can make a difference given certain equipement. To me saying this cannot happen when it is Soooo apparent because you can't trust your own ears is like saying I can't trust my own eyes....maybe I can't see the moniter maybe I just think I can......before anyone jumps on that I point again to the objective blind testing results

Seems to me that this is akin to arguing light peacock blue with a color blind person.

To me if you hear a difference, how can I possibly diagree. If YOU like what you hear that is all that matters.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 883dave To me if you hear a difference, how can I possibly diagree. If YOU like what you hear that is all that matters.

We should have another poll where we ask if people like what they hear when they change cables. Then we can wait for the reponses that say: "You only think you like what you hear."

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS maybe I'm missing something, or maybe you just meant the comment as another gratuitous insult?

You can't insult an inanimate object. My scorn is directed at hideously overpriced rocks and wires. Too bad some folks take negative comments about pebbles and wires so personally. It makes it difficult for them to remain civil.

See ya
Steve

 

[bigshot]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 883dave Just letting people who could be influenced by these posts know the beliefs of people who make there opinions appear as fact (SIC)

Spelling, grammar and punctuation reflects on one's education as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 883dave Edit...P.S. How does a good ergonomic remote control sound?

That depends on whether you claim to have ears capable of hearing infra-red signals.

(I still don't know what's wrong with pointing out that most remote controls are poorly designed...)

See ya
Steve